Ray's Norman Osborn/Mephisto theory (Avengers: The Initiative #29 review)

[Capt. Dallas]

Originally Posted by ray

What if Brand New Day actually wasn't a deal between Spidey and Mephisto but Mephisto and Norman Osborn?

I'm not exactly understanding what's being bartered between Norman and Mephisto.

In Ray's proposal, Mephisto causes Norman's resurrection and his rise to his power (among other events), but in return Mephisto gets.... what?

That's how Mephisto works in the Marvel Universe, yes? He'll give you what you want as long as he gets you to do something you don't want to do. He wants you to willingly choose to sell your soul. Someone correct me if I'm not understanding Mephisto's M.O.

If I AM understanding him, then I don't see how Norman could provide him with any of the following:

Originally Posted by kolchak

The souls of all the heroes? The satisfaction of tainting the heroes forever? Perhaps, the simple shattering of the Marvel Universe's cohesiveness.

Ray

Again, what exactly is bartered here?

[Dave Wallace]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dallas

I'm not exactly understanding what's being bartered between Norman and Mephisto.

In Ray's proposal, Mephisto causes Norman's resurrection and his rise to his power (among other events), but in return Mephisto gets.... what?

That's how Mephisto works in the Marvel Universe, yes? He'll give you what you want as long as he gets you to do something you don't want to do. He wants you to willingly choose to sell your soul. Someone correct me if I'm not understanding Mephisto's M.O.

If I AM understanding him, then I don't see how Norman could provide him with any of the following:




Again, what exactly is bartered here?

Yeah, this was what I was getting at - what does Mephisto gain from the whole thing?

I think that Ray's suggestion that he would simply enjoy throwing the Marvel Universe into disarray and darkness was a reasonable one: after all, he was happy to rewrite huge chunks of Spider-Man continuity (which must be fiddly and time-consuming, even for a powerful being like him) just for the pleasure of erasing Peter and MJ's marriage. So, I think he'd be quite happy to do the same thing if to cause disharmony among the heroes and propel Norman to power - in addition to removing the Pete/MJ marriage (and convincing Pete and MJ that it was their decision to do so into the bargain).

Still, there's something that seems a little off about it to me. These tricky Faustian pacts usually end up backfiring on the person who made the deal with the devil, and at the moment Osborn is looking like he's done quite well out of the deal. I don't expect that to last much longer, though.

Either way, I don't see this theory coming to pass - but I think it's an interesting idea that could work, if it was executed well.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by Dave Wallace

Still, there's something that seems a little off about it to me. These tricky Faustian pacts usually end up backfiring on the person who made the deal with the devil, and at the moment Osborn is looking like he's done quite well out of the deal. I don't expect that to last much longer, though.

Either way, I don't see this theory coming to pass - but I think it's an interesting idea that could work, if it was executed well.

Well, I figure obviously he gets Norman Osborn's soul, which to we mere mortals seems rather nasty anywho, but from a Catholic perspective, Osborn could have asked for forgiveness and received it. So, in that sense, his soul was still pure. Don't look at me that way. I don't support any organized religion

I imagine Mephisto could in that instance see all of this potential chaos unfolding with heroes that were his enemies fighting each other, and Mephisto would just love that. Maybe he even feeds on chaos like Darkseid feeds on misery.

Come to think of it, Mephisto did encounter the FF, so he has a grudge with Reed Richards. So maybe he manipulated the numbers to make Reed think the Registration side would win, blinding him to the possible victory of the resistance had Reed taken that side.

Ray

[Chris Power]

For those who are interested, Ray's theory was also posited in October by a fellow reviewer Matt Morrison (who I read fairly regularly):
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/...inners_are.php

He has a breakdown of the current status quo in the Marvel Universe and posits why Norman might have made the deal.

[Paul Brian McCoy]

Originally Posted by Chris Power

For those who are interested, Ray's theory was also posited in October by a fellow reviewer Matt Morrison (who I read fairly regularly):
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/...inners_are.php

He has a breakdown of the current status quo in the Marvel Universe and posits why Norman might have made the deal.

Yeah, I think that's what Ray was referencing in his review. There are quite a few responses that point out problems with the theory, emphasizing the fact that the guy doesn't seem to be up on the current status of Spidey's main series.

[Jason Sacks]

Originally Posted by Chris Power

For those who are interested, Ray's theory was also posited in October by a fellow reviewer Matt Morrison (who I read fairly regularly):
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/...inners_are.php

He has a breakdown of the current status quo in the Marvel Universe and posits why Norman might have made the deal.

Thanks for posting this, Chris. I'm glad to see you bring this into the discussion.

[Chris Power]

Originally Posted by Dave Wallace

Again, how many of these have you actually read? I seem to remember you saying in a previous thread that you hadn't read Fraction's Invincible Iron Man, for example - which is (unsurprisingly) where a lot of the character development for Tony Stark has taken place.

Indeed. I highly recommend this book for very solid character development as well as a healthy respect for history. Much like the X-Men run he is doing, he has touched on numerous threads from Iron Man's past which are interesting and being used compellingly. This is amazing when you consider he is relatively young writer.

So compellingly that he won an Eisner this year for his work on it.