Famous Faces in Marvel Comics

[Cory Johnson]

What's up with the obvious use of actors' faces in Marvel comics? Ultimate Nick Fury has slowly morphed into Samuel L. Jackson, and the latest issue of New Avengers has a SHIELD agent that is a dead ringer for Angelina Jolie. Do these people get paid when their likenesses are used? Why is Marvel doing this? It's pretty distracting. :icon_neut

[Dave Hearn]

What's up with the obvious use of actors' faces in Marvel comics? Ultimate Nick Fury has slowly morphed into Samuel L. Jackson, and the latest issue of New Avengers has a SHIELD agent that is a dead ringer for Angelina Jolie. Do these people get paid when their likenesses are used? Why is Marvel doing this? It's pretty distracting. :icon_neut

Bryan Hitch has always used Sam Jackson as the model for Nick Fury in The Ulitmates. I agree with you that it's distracting. It's all part of the current "realistic" or "cinematic" trend in comics today. Honestly, I'm a little tired of creators playing out their movie-making fantasies in the comic books I buy (if we stopped buying them, I'll bet the trend would stop). If they want to write movies, then do it IN the movies. Comics are a completely different medium that has it's own visual language. Artists like Bryan Hitch, John Cassaday, Alex Ross and Alex Maleev are excellent with their tools, but their ability to tell a story is lacking.

-Dave

[Jim Thompson]

What's up with the obvious use of actors' faces in Marvel comics? Ultimate Nick Fury has slowly morphed into Samuel L. Jackson, and the latest issue of New Avengers has a SHIELD agent that is a dead ringer for Angelina Jolie. Do these people get paid when their likenesses are used? Why is Marvel doing this? It's pretty distracting. :icon_neutIt's also as defacto admission they cannot create something interesting enough to hold reader interest on their own.

[Paul Brian McCoy]

Yeah! And Constantine should never have been drawn to look like Sting! :icon_craz

[Michael Aronson]

Bryan Hitch has always used Sam Jackson as the model for Nick Fury in The Ulitmates. I agree with you that it's distracting. It's all part of the current "realistic" or "cinematic" trend in comics today. Honestly, I'm a little tired of creators playing out their movie-making fantasies in the comic books I buy (if we stopped buying them, I'll bet the trend would stop). If they want to write movies, then do it IN the movies. Comics are a completely different medium that has it's own visual language. Artists like Bryan Hitch, John Cassaday, Alex Ross and Alex Maleev are excellent with their tools, but their ability to tell a story is lacking.

-Dave
In early 2004, before Marvel brought him back into the fold, PAD ranted at a con about how comic writers today are just using comics to write pitches for movies, with the 6-issue trades as the perfect proposal package. He also said the current breed of comic writers grew up with movies, not with reading actual books, and tend to write their stories based on the popular themes they know.

I wish we could talk about Civil War #1, since it's the first Mark Millar book I've read in two years, and he's perhaps the most flagrant user of Hollywood-references/style/aping.

[Paul Brian McCoy]

Just to be clear, what are we bitching about here, exactly?

I thought it was artists using actors' likenesses being distracting, or was it writers who want to write movies instead of comics? :icon_roll

[Michael Aronson]

Seems to have become comics emulating Hollywood.

Speaking of which, I really really hate name-dropping. I quit the first volume of Ultimates with the line "Shannon Elizabeth just made me laugh and spit milk out my nose" or something like that. Well sorry Millar, Eminem just farted and made me drop your book.

[Jim Thompson]

Seems to have become comics emulating Hollywood.

Speaking of which, I really really hate name-dropping. I quit the first volume of Ultimates with the line "Shannon Elizabeth just made me laugh and spit milk out my nose" or something like that. Well sorry Millar, Eminem just farted and made me drop your book.Sorry...missed that. I was busy saving Sean Penn from his latest idiocy.

[Michael Aronson]

The thing is this: okay, so if Toby McGuire, Elizabeth Shannon and Freddie Prinze Jr. have to exist in the same universe as the Ultimate character, fine, I find those books boring as hell anyway.

But I see that trend extending now way too far in the regular Marvel U, especially now that Bendis and Millar, once nothing more than Ultimate writers (and of once-continuity-free books like Alias and Daredevil), have thoroughly invaded and acquired the reins of the core characters.

[Eric Longo]

Jesus! pop a midol!

[Michael Aronson]

Jesus! pop a midol!
So your response to people debating a topic that you find disagreeable is to insult them for doing so? Classy.

[Cory Johnson]

I like the SBC message boards because it isn't filled with nastiness like over at NEWSARAMA. Can we PLEASE keep it that way? I'm not a pu$$y, I can take and dish out insults, but please not on SBC. I like this site too much.

[Dave Hearn]

I like the SBC message boards because it isn't filled with nastiness like over at NEWSARAMA. Can we PLEASE keep it that way? I'm not a pu$$y, I can take and dish out insults, but please not on SBC. I like this site too much.
This kind of stuff happens here sometimes. Usually it blows over in a couple of posts. I wouldn't worry about it. Everyone here is cool. (heh, I said "cool", I'm so hip)

I am lamenting the over-use of cinematic structure in today's comics. Sure, it's a perfectly legitimate way to tell a story in comics, but it's become a cliche not to mention a waste of space. I pay about 3 bucks for each comic and I essentially get about 16 pages worth of story with the cinematic approach.

As far as the use of celebrity models, every now and then when I read Ultimates I think to myself "Hey, that's Sam Jackson!". It pulls me out of the fantasy. As far as I'm concerned, if a comic element doesn't really serve the story or removes a reader from the story itself, then it's not an effective story-telling tool. That's all. Just my opinion.

The whole thing about Constantine looking like Sting; you have to remember that he appeared that way in the mid-80's when the practice of using celebrity models wasn't so prevalent. (Swamp Thing #38 has the best example) Incidentally, I bought that book when it came out and thought to myself, "Hey, that's Sting!" Stephen Bissette is a great comic artist but I disagreed with that choice then. It distracted from the story. Later on, Constantine resembled Sting less and, I think, it served the story better.

-Dave

[Michael Aronson]

I also have a problem with photo-reference artists, like Maleev and Land, molding their characters after real people. I like how the artists who focus less on realism and more on style - Sale, Cooke, Allred, Hester, Wood, Mahnke, to name a few - tap into the iconography of the characters, both the timelessness and malleable quality of the characters, but it also opens up the interpretation. Consider Darwyn Cooke's more minimalist style:

http://www.rackham.dk/anmeldelse/billeder/dc_new_frontier/jordan_ferris.jpg
Those aren't necessary just Hal and Carrol, they could be anyone. We can identify with Hal if we want, because he's just a normal guy, he's not a guy who looks JUST LIKE [ACTOR].

People of any race or ethnicity identify with Superman and Batman, even though they're white. At their best, Batman and Superman don't necessarily resemble the actors who once played them, but they resemble ideas personified by guys who just happen to be white.

I'm just saying, the more realism, the more specific a reference is, the less universal the appeal of the image (of course that also depends on artistic ability, but all things being equal, I could possibly be onto something).

[Eric Longo]

So your response to people debating a topic that you find disagreeable is to insult them for doing so? Classy.


it was in jest dude. you have right to say Marvel sucks. its your opinion

[Jim Thompson]

I'm just saying, the more realism, the more specific a reference is, the less universal the appeal of the image (of course that also depends on artistic ability, but all things being equal, I could possibly be onto something).You've stumbled on to a concept Scott McCloud outlined in Understanding Comics, and I think it is a good one. The Japanese have used the minimalist people/detailed surroundings for a long time, with the thought the minimalism of the characters actually aids a reader's ability to relate to the characters.

[Paul Brian McCoy]

You've stumbled on to a concept Scott McCloud outlined in Understanding Comics, and I think it is a good one. The Japanese have used the minimalist people/detailed surroundings for a long time, with the thought the minimalism of the characters actually aids a reader's ability to relate to the characters.

Of course, then you have to take into account all of the people who now think that Manga characters all look the same and are interchangeable from comic to comic. It's not necessarily a valid argument, but it is a widespread fandom criticism.

Personally, I don't get hung up on who a character looks like in a comic any more than I get distracted in a film because I've seen the actors in other works.

[Paul Brian McCoy]

I also don't feel that one style of art is superior or inferior to another style of art. Different artistic approaches achieve different ends. I enjoy comics by many different artists with many different styles.

[Eric Longo]

I also don't feel that one style of art is superior or inferior to another style of art. Different artistic approaches achieve different ends. I enjoy comics by many different artists with many different styles.


Bingo! you hit the nail on the head!

[Jim Thompson]

I also don't feel that one style of art is superior or inferior to another style of art. Different artistic approaches achieve different ends. I enjoy comics by many different artists with many different styles.Oh yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I was just pointing out what had been written about hdefined's earlier observation.

[Michael Aronson]

it was in jest dude. you have right to say Marvel sucks. its your opinion
If you bothered to read my posts, that's not my opinion.

[Michael Aronson]

Of course, then you have to take into account all of the people who now think that Manga characters all look the same and are interchangeable from comic to comic. It's not necessarily a valid argument, but it is a widespread fandom criticism.

How is that any different than people used to manga style finding western characters (the ones without brightly colored spandex to differentiate from each other) equally interchangible? The same complaint could have been made with Gotham Central. That sort of relies upon the priorities of the reader (which is more important, story or art?).

Personally, I don't get hung up on who a character looks like in a comic any more than I get distracted in a film because I've seen the actors in other works.
I sometimes do, depending on who the actor is and how much of an effort they're making to get into their role. For example, SLJ, Tom Cruise, Vin Diesel, they end up playing similar roles in most of their movies, and it comes to a point where they're just playing themselves in different contexts. Like Adam Sandler movies - different movie, same character. That takes me out, and I usually avoid movies with such actors.

[Michael Aronson]

I also don't feel that one style of art is superior or inferior to another style of art. Different artistic approaches achieve different ends. I enjoy comics by many different artists with many different styles.
Are you talking about style itself, all skill being equal, or style coupled with an individual artist's ability? I'm sure there are projects that would be perfect for Liefeld's style, but I don't hold the style itself in high regard. Just like different styles of music. There are times when, say, eurobeat could be perfectly appropriate, but I don't think it's on an equal or higher level than any other style of music.