Keith Giffen: Suicide KingBy Mike Jozic On September 6th, the first issue of a new Suicide Squad will hit the stands, marking a return to comics both for it's writer, Keith Giffen, and also for the Squad who have been out of action and in comic book limbo for some time now. The series is being illustrated by newcomer, and Planet of the Apes artist, Paco Medina, and will stick to the format of previous incarnations, with villains undertaking suicide missions in return for their freedom on the condition that they survive the ordeal.
While earlier squads maintained a core group of villains, Giffen strives to live up to the books name, with few to none of the villains ever making it home from their assignments (the book is called Suicide Squad, right?), and this appears to be the area where Keith has met the most resistance from fans, and even other DC creators and editors. The legacy of John Ostrander, the series' previous caretaker, is strong among fandom assembled, and while Giffen is promising to deliver dense storytelling, spectacular missions, and overall, more bang for your buck, his work is still very much cut out for him.
Keith spoke candidly to me about working on the book, his upcoming projects and, of all things, the Planet of the Apes re-imagining by Tim Burton...
MIKE JOZIC: How are things?
 KEITH GIFFEN: Good. I just got my advances of the first issue of Suicide Squad. I'm kind of surprised I'm getting advances because normally, I get my little bundle of 25 copies, or however much they give me, two weeks after it's gone on sale. I'm like the last guy to see it.
JOZIC: So what do you think of the finished product?
GIFFEN: There's only one word balloon in there that's pointing to the wrong person. Just one.
JOZIC: And that is, on average, pretty good?
GIFFEN: It's spectacular considering the amount of dialogue I put in the issue. In the average panel, I've got two or three conversations going on at the same time. I just looked at the price and thought, "$2.50, this should take longer to read than the average comic. You should have to wipe your ass before you're done reading the comic."
JOZIC: [laughs] So, you're approaching Suicide Squad in a similar manner to how you did Legion of Super-Heroes?
GIFFEN: Yeah, except there are no nine panel grids. Just giving as much as I can in terms of density of reading and there are no two-page spreads. There's not even a full-page spread. It's just a matter of story first, story first, story first. Let's worry about the story first. And you know what? When you're done, you may even have to go back and reread a couple of sections to make sure you know what's going on. I like that. And I think Suicide Squad rewards a second reading, and I think that's what you got to do, otherwise you're dead.
I mean, $2.50? It's a pamphlet.
But the colouring is pretty good considering I've never heard of the colourist. [laughs] Paco just nailed…I mean, I'm in awe of this Medina guy. I didn't care for the stuff he did on Superman. I didn't care for the stuff I'd seen up until now, but boy is he nailing this book. The quiet panels work. They're a little unnerving because they come out of nowhere, you know? Like, all of a sudden, in the middle of a conversation, the characters will get really quiet just to give each other looks [and] he nails the moment.
This book is doomed. I'm having too much fun on it.
JOZIC: [laughs] Is Paco going to be on the book for the long run?
GIFFEN: Yeah, Paco loves this book.
Apparently he had one of these real Charles Dickens upbringings down in Mexico City. The Oliver Twist kind of lifestyle. Destitute. And apparently one of the things that got him through the day was laughing along with Justice League.
Not too much pressure, right? [laughs]
I have no complaints and I can call him about anything. I mean Paco…God bless Paco because I ask him for a lot. That's why the book's dead, because you have to read it.
JOZIC: I've just seen his name attached to The Planet of the Apes over at Dark Horse…
GIFFEN: God bless him.
Did you see the movie?
JOZIC: Actually I did.
GIFFEN: I came out of that movie, after I got over it, feeling like I'd been screwed out of my money. You really, really, really got to like ape make-up - I'm talking to the point of fetish - to have enjoyed this movie. I'm just broad sided by these ludicrous moments that they're trying to gloss over by, "Yeah, but don't they look good in the gorilla make-up?"
And then the ending.
Well, first of all, the ending ending was the non-event of the year. The Lincoln memorial…Oooo, it's a gorilla! But the ending ending when the monkey came down in a rocket?
Let's assume that we're in a battle with gorillas. It's a bloodthirsty battle with gorillas and all of a sudden a spaceship comes down and Jesus gets out. That's the equivalent, right?
JOZIC: Yeah.
GIFFEN: And a gorilla starts moving on Jesus, the same way Mark Wahlberg started moving on their god. I don't think the gorilla would get more than two steps before somebody cut him down, and yet these apes stood by and let Marky-Mark walk up and pick up the gorilla. And what does he say? "Oh, hi boy. How you doing?" By then, I was almost under the seat. I was mortified to be in the theatre. And Tim Burton just went on my, "You've disappointed me for the last time" list.
JOZIC: So what have you been up to lately?
GIFFEN: I'm actually just settling down here working up the courage to pencil a book.
JOZIC: Power Company?
 GIFFEN: I've got the plot. Power Company, yeah. The only reason I did it was because they invoked Kurt Busiek's name. I called up and tried to be difficult and said, "I want Al Milgrom to ink it," because Al Milgrom was the only person inking like Joe Sinnot on the World's Greatest Comic project, and that's including Joe Sinnot. And they went for it.
So, I've got little pieces here and there. And, of course, they go, "Do you need any reference material?"
"Gee, no, it takes place during Invasion!. I think I know that story."
JOZIC: [laughs]
GIFFEN: I've got little pieces like a close-up here, and an arm there as I slowly work my way back into the pencilling bit.
I'm also going to be doing four pages of a JSA issue.
JOZIC: Oh, really?
GIFFEN: Yeah, it's sort of a dream scene with Sandman which is going to be with all of the modern characters, but I'm going to draw it like 1940s Kirby. I'm drawing it in that old Simon and Kirby style.
JOZIC: What style are you using for The Power Company - Classic, or Trencher style?
GIFFEN: Sort of a smoother version of what I was doing in PunX. I'm just playing around.
I just spent two years doing storyboards for Bruce Timm. I started drawing and I was like, "Oh my God, it's Bruce Timm." Because you have to do it to model and I got really used to the fact that arms were drawn by a straight line on one side, and a wump-de-bump on the other. And I thought, maybe I should draw it like that, and then I realised, no, they can see the cartoon for free. This is, again, another $2.50, the least I could do is give them a picture that maybe they have to think about for a while.
I love these descriptions I get sometimes. Full page shot of Metropolis being attacked by armies of Hawkman soldiers. And it's so much easier to write than it is to draw. Armies of Hawkman soldiers. Four words.
JOZIC: I remember when Warren Ellis was doing The Authority, I think, with Bryan Hitch and the panel description would be something along the lines of, "Thousands of warships descend on the Earth."
GIFFEN: My all-time favourite Paul Levitz gave to me during The Great Darkness - "The population of Daxam rises off the planet." That was my all-time favourite. I actually called him and said, "Have you lost your f***ing mind?" It's not even a full-page spread. And Paul, God bless him, just goes, "Stipple," which is the art of dotting.
I'm getting back into all sorts of weird [stuff]. I can't believe this. I'm gradually being sucked back into comics, kicking and screaming and begging them not to.
 JOZIC: I also heard that you were going to do a Bugs Bunny story. Is that correct?
GIFFEN: I did a Bugs Bunny, yes.
JOZIC: Oh, it's already come and gone?
GIFFEN: No, it's coming out. If you see a copy of Looney Tunes with Bugs Bunny standing next to a vending machine, that's my issue.
JOZIC: Okay.
GIFFEN: It's funny, because I'm doing another Bugs Bunny story, [and] the Bugs Bunny stories are the most autobiographical stuff that I've ever done.
JOZIC: You'll be writing or drawing those stories?
GIFFEN: I'm only writing them. I'm not drawing them, no. I write it and break it down [and] I do full script.
The first one was Bugs Bunny vs. the Vending Machine, and the second one is Bugs Bunny's Adventures While Boogie Boarding.
I asked DC to keep it quiet, but apparently they can't. I just wanted the Bugs Bunny thing to slide by and then somewhere way, way down the line someone will go, "Oh I know this obscure thing. He did March Hare" and someone else could go, "Oh, he did Bugs Bunny," and…I wanted it to be that kind of thing.
JOZIC: I've also heard about a Lovecraft project that you are connected to?
GIFFEN: That is going to be something else. It's a hardcover 140 page graphic novel based on the screenplay by Hans Rodionoff that John Carpenter has attached himself to direct. So, we get the graphic novel before the film and it's being drawn by Enrique Breccia. He's doing the whole thing, fully painted and he's using all sorts of different styles. It's looking great. And it's a great story. It's got some really sick, twisted s*** in there.
JOZIC: Are you a Lovecraft fan?
GIFFEN: Yeah, I like Lovecraft a lot.
I was brought in to, first of all, turn the screenplay into a graphic novel, but there's also things about the screenplay that…Film and comics are two…The difference between people who are in film or comics is that people who are in film are bigger pussies than the people who do comics. So, for a Vertigo graphic novel, I could pull out all the stops. I could go for really horrific, mind-f***ing scenes, whereas in the screenplay, you have to have it happen off camera or massage it, [and] it looks good.
JOZIC: Is there an official release date yet?
GIFFEN: I don't know when it's coming out. I have no idea. My attitude is, this guy is doing such brilliant work on it, leave him alone. Publish it when it's done. Don't even schedule it because it's just gorgeous stuff. Don't rush with it.
JOZIC: So why are you focusing so much on the writing and not drawing as much as you used to?
GIFFEN: I'm a faster writer and the pay is better. Ummm…okay, that's the truth out of the way.
JOZIC: [laughs]
GIFFEN: I don't think the way I draw is in tune with what is popular right now. I think, [for me], drawing a comic book right now is like being the oldest guy in the club.
My approach to comics, in terms of art? Not to slight the man, but Kirby probably should have retired ten years before he did. He was not plugged in. And I'm looking at Paco Medina and Humberto Ramos, who seem to be the current manga-lite bigfoot thing, and I cannot do it. I mean, I literally cannot do it. I just think I'm a little out of step.
As a sort of novelty thing, like Joe Kubert - who answered for us the question, "What would happen if Stan Lee had created the DC Universe? It would suck"…
JOZIC: [laughs]
GIFFEN: Because according to Stan Lee, what DC needs is more pig-nosed super-heroes.
How can you make Joe Kubert look bad? As brilliant as he is, this is not going to be appreciated at all in what's left of today's marketplace.
 But as a little flash from the past, "Oh look, Keith drew a book. How nice. What a novelty." I think guys like Joe Kubert and myself, John Byrne, Perez…we're plastic vomit. We're a novelty that you kind of need, but are overexposed and…eeeyuuchhh. And, to be honest with you, the hearts gone out of the art for me. It's difficult for me to do simply because there was a difference between drawing the Legion back then and knowing there was an audience out there and they knew what I was doing. Perhaps I could have some impact and try a different approach to the artwork and there was an audience out there that only tolerated it but who respected that. It's not the same now. Everyone wants their [stuff] to look a certain way.
When I walked off of the Legion and Jason Person came on, some Legion fans squealed like a stuck pig. But you know what? There was a tolerance there and people went, "You know this guy Jason Pearson, he's got an approach, he's got something to say and he's obviously got a voice [so] let's give him a chance." Now, if Rags ever leaves JSA, I think the book will die because there's no tolerance. When the average comic book reader is 30 years old, they're set in their ways. Kids are flexible.
The general consensus when they see my art will be, "Thank God he's writing."
JOZIC: How do you react to fans who think that John Ostrander should still be doing Suicide Squad?
GIFFEN: I hear John's a little miffed that he's not doing it, but, John, I didn't get miffed when you were doing Justice League, so grow up.
This is the first assignment I've been offered by DC since Legion of Super-Heroes. Everything else at DC I've had to do for myself. [I had] to figure out a way of pitching myself. Tomasi called me on Suicide Squad. I was kind of flattered. And then he said, "Do whatever you want, we don't care?" Excuse me?
But, I'm up to issue eight and I've done some really weird esoteric stuff in there.
JOZIC: Is the freedom you've been given on the book having faith in you as a writer, or is Suicide Squad just an obscure enough project? Like putting you on Hex, or something.
GIFFEN: No, Suicide Squad is one they're looking at. It's one of their books that they consider have a marquee value. It's not an obscure book like Hex. I think, there's a book out there, I love the title of the book, it's called If You're Calling Me, Your Career Must be in Trouble. And my thought is, in offering me Suicide Squad, and then not layering on all of the restrictions and stuff like that, to my way of thinking it's DC's way of flying the white flag.
I just think that this is DC's way of saying, "Well, we don't know what to do, let's give Keith free reign. If it doesn't work, we can say, 'Ulp…It's Giffen again!' and throw him out the door. If it does work, we'll still throw him out but we'll have a book that sells."
I don't know what they're hoping for. If they get a book that sells they can warrant paying us to do it, because…Let's put it this way. The Suicide Squad comic, I think, is the one comic being published by DC right now that you can genuinely say is being done just for the sake of being a comic. Because I doubt very much Hollywood's going to call and go, "We want to do a cartoon called Suicide Squad," you know what I mean? I don't think the merchandising machine is going to crank up behind anything that has anything to do with suicide. Especially not suicide as something to be aspired to.
It's kind of weird that they brought this back in this way. Maybe that's why they put me on it. Maybe they thought, "Well, it's not going to go anywhere. It's just going to be a comic book, how badly can he f*** up?"
JOZIC: Are you finding it difficult at all…
 GIFFEN: No, no, Peter Tomasi is a Godsend. See, as long as I'm a good boy and call to say, "I'd like to kill this villain and this villain and this villain," and make sure that DC knows that I want to kill these villains, double check it, triple check it and check it through the creative team, the editors, the executive editors, the guy that runs the mailroom, the copy boy and everything like that…And then I kill the villain and, of course, they still come back to me and say, "You killed him! You can't kill him!" I've already had two deaths from the first issue undone.
JOZIC: Really?
GIFFEN: Yeah, one of which was a lunatic situation. I'm not going to get into it, but it was just like, "I..I..I..I" And I called a friend of mine and said, "Please, I'm going to tell you this story, tell me it isn't me." It was maddening.
I swore during the book that I would never have any regulars on the super-villains-going-out-and-doing-the-mission team, but unfortunately, three characters leapt up and said, "No, we'd like to be around for a while." And I'm kind of cool with that because I liked them.
Look for Suicide Squad#1 at your local comic store on September 5th, 2001. For more news and information on Keith Giffen, visit The Keith Giffen Resource Page.
 |  | Mike Jozic has spent the last several years interviewing comic book creators and other entertainment related personalities for various publications. He has been published both online and in print, with his work appearing in The Comics Journal, FearsMag.com and Silver Bullet Comicbooks. He maintains his own website at www.meanwhile.net and currently serves as the Features Editor for SBC. |  |  |
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