The Amazing John Romita, Jr.

By Mike Jozic

While John Romita, Jr. has been drawing comic books for the last 20 odd years, it is probably the character of Spider-Man that he is most identified with. His current work on the title with writer, J. Michael Straczynski. has revitalised the book and character, and his upcoming run on Marvel's Incredible Hulk promises to do the same.

I had an opportunity to speak with John the other day and catch up on his current projects...

MIKE JOZIC: I wanted to start with Spider-Man since he's pretty much been a constant in your life for the past twenty-some odd years.

JOHN ROMITA, Jr.: [laughs] It has.

JOZIC: Having worked on the character on and off for as long as you have, aside from the obvious connection with your dad, what draws you to this particular character?

ROMITA, Jr.: I suppose that when I first srtarted drawing him, or even watched my father work on him at first, I recall a conversation of [how] my father felt a part of it - 'cause, you know, he's a kid from New York, and so on - and that, at a young age, gave me an inkling of closeness since I could identify.

When I started drawing the character I already felt a certain closeness from reading it and thinking that it was a kid like me. When I started working on the character, it really confirmed that I could draw things in Peter Parker's life that were in my life. Certain clothes that he wore, certain shoes that he wore, I could put something up on the wall that he had in my room. So, it's just the familiarity of the kid from New York, and so on.

Then, over time, just the fact that I've done him so many times, I guess that familiarity just perpetuated. That's the best way I can think of it. It's like having a brother, you know?

JOZIC: Is there a particular appeal to the design of the character for you?

ROMITA, Jr.: No! The webs are annoying.

JOZIC: [laughs]

ROMITA, Jr.: And I struggle with expression. I'm working on a page right now with J. Michael Straczynski [where he's] asked for Peter Parker to grin underneath Spider-Man's mask. Spider-Man's grinning at a moment, and that's not easy to do with a mask on. That is a frustrating thing, not being able to show expression. And the webbings can be tedious, yes.

JOZIC: I've actually noticed that over the last four or five issues you have kind of tried to put a little more detail into the shape of Peter's head when he's wearing the mask. Showing the features of his face a little more.

ROMITA, Jr.: He has had the snot beaten out of him, so his head's all misshapen.

JOZIC: [laughs]

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, there have been specific moments where the writer…I'm sorry, Mr. Straczynski. I should call him J. Michael…Joseph…JMS has asked specifically in panels for a reaction, a close-up, shot with a smile underneath, or rage underneath the mask. So, with those kinds of specific requests you have to try your best to exaggerate the lumps in the mask, so to speak. But there's only so much you can convey, so that is a frustrating request.

JOZIC: So, that is unique to the writer. That isn't you developing the look of Spidey further…

ROMITA, Jr.: I've been asked before, but I think that everybody else has understood that it's almost impossible to show that kind of expression. He hasn't said these words to me, but I'm sure he's thought this, "I understand it's difficult, but specifically, let's give it our best shot." So, it's my job to exaggerate a touch. It's not an impossible request, and it's not an unreasonable request, but it was perfect to the moment and I have no problem with it. You just have to suspend a little reality and say, "Well, since his cheekbones are sticking out a little bit, maybe he's grinning under there." The context and the dialogue also help out.

JOZIC: Since we've very quickly strayed to the mechanics of what you do, I think I'll run with that for a bit and get back to Spidey later.

ROMITA, Jr.: Sure.

JOZIC: I've noticed in the last few issues that on Spider-Man's mask, the way the eyes are done resembles the look of the Spider-Man costume for the film. Was that a conscious effort on your part or was that the colourists doing?

ROMITA, Jr.: That's out of our hands. I noticed it myself in the finished product. I don't know if that's a concerted effort on the company's part, or just the colorist, I don't know. There have also been comments that there is a look of raised webbing, as in the film. I don't know who took it upon themselves. I don't have a problem with it, it makes sense but I don't particularly care for the look of the costume in the film. My idea of what it should look like is completely different from the way it looks. It reminds me too much of the Spider-Man costume in the original series. Laughable. [laughs]

JOZIC: You mean the live-action TV show from the seventies?

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah. So, when the film comes out and I see it over the two hours, I hope it looks a whole lot better than what I've seen. I'm sure it will, and I'm sure with shadows and the action, I won't notice the little flaws. I'll probably be the movie's worst critic along with all the people who've worked on it. You can't help it if you're close to it. And that's not fair because the average guy from Montana couldn't give a damn if there are reflective eyes or raised webbing. Myself and everyone who's worked on the film and character will be critics, but so will everybody else that feels a part of the character. That's part of it and that's the way it is.

JOZIC: I don't really see what they mean by the raised webbing in your work, but I did see Kaare Andrews' cover for an upcoming issue and it seems to draw heavily from the movie design.

ROMITA, Jr.: I only noticed in the final product, along with the reflective eyes, there was a hint of colour highlights that gave you an idea that there might be raised webbing. It was not on my part at all. I don't think it makes enough of a difference, but if they're doing that to hit a closeness to the movie, I have no problem with that at all.

JOZIC: Since the relaunch about three years ago, have you made a concerted effort to draw Spider-Man a bit more lithe and spider-like than previously? He seems to have returned to the "classic" skinny Spider-Man.

ROMITA, Jr.: I have tried to slim him down. I have a penchant towards bulky characters and I have worked on bulky characters while I have worked on Spider-Man. It goes back to when I worked on The Punisher and Daredevil. I had a habit of working on this 280 pound Punisher, and then Daredevil is supposed to be 190 pounds. Then I worked on Spider-Man and Thor, and I also worked on Iron Man and Daredevil. I would go from one set of pages on day, to Spider-Man the next day where I would have a struggle. And I heard comments from people saying, "This is supposed to be a 5' 10", 160 pound guy," and I was drawing him with a little too much mass. Nobody said, "Stop that and draw him more lean," but I tried to take it upon myself to slim him down a bit. Maybe he lost some muscle mass, I don't know.

But, yes, it was a concerted effort and I do accept the fact that I was drawing Spider-Man a little bit too muscular, in my own eyes. Nobody ever complained and said, "Change it, fix it, you're not doing it right."

JOZIC: Since you have been doing Spider-Man for so long, how do you keep the character interesting for you artistically?

ROMITA, Jr.: Every time I get my mortgage notice from the bank, every time the statement comes in the mail that says I have to pay this thing by the first week of the month, I am forced to draw something different on Spider-Man to make it interesting. That's how I do it. [laughs] There's no magic bullet. Get this done and make sure people read it or you are out of a job and you can't pay your mortgage.

JOZIC: Very "old school". [laughs]

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, sure.

Every time I pick up a script, or plot, part of the problem, part of my difficulty is making things different. You have to design, you have to draw a story and you have to make it interesting in a different way every time. Get to it because every drawing has probably been done ten times over by every different artist. And if you do something different, you're a genius. I don't think I can do anything different that makes me a genius, but what I can do is try to alter something I've done before. And if I have any cognisance of what I've done before, it's pure memory, and I try to slightly alter that image.

The designs…design and storytelling I think I can expand a little bit, because design is unlimited, and storytelling, cinema-wise, there's been a billion and one different stories, angles, images and directions by directors that every artist should be able to expound upon. Watch any director on a movie, and then watch any other movie with another director, and there's a different way of looking at it. So, I think that every artist should be able to tell a story slightly different with ups and downs, ins and outs, and change of scenery.

But as far as the physical images, it's really hard to do things differently book to book to book. Now, guys like John Byrne and George Perez, guys like my father and guys who have been in the business 25 years and up, you cannot possibly change the images and be original every single time. You've done it so many times. You just try to be clever. Instead of a typical straight-on face shot, you try and turn the angle a bit. There's 360 degrees, so you can consider with a face shot, if you draw a face 360 different times, you've covered every angle of the image. So if you've done a book 360 times you've run out of degrees. [laughter]

I'm just getting carried away.

Yeah, you really have to work at it, to make a concerted effort to not be repetitive visually. The Great Ones do that. I don't know if I've succeeded, but it's a concerted effort in everything to do. "I've done that image before, I've done that angle before, let me try this different one."

JOZIC: You've mentioned the other books that you've worked on and the struggle you have with the mass of characters, like Daredevil, Punisher…

ROMITA, Jr.: X-Men.

JOZIC: Yeah, the X-Men, the Thor and Spidey. There always seems to be that balance between "bulky" and "not-so-bulky"…

ROMITA, Jr.: And now I'm doing Hulk. You'd think I would learn.

JOZIC: Are you choosing your books this way consciously, or…

ROMITA, Jr.: I'm consciously doing different things, but with Super-Heroes, where there are bulky characters and massive characters, I don't go out of my way to pick massive, bulky characters in addition to slim, lean characters. It just seems to happen that way. I would love to say that I've gotten the original Marvel characters all done under my wing. I think, with the exception of Captain America dn the FF, I've gotten to every original character that I saw when I was a kid.

I haven't drawn The Avengers except for a fill-in issue, so I guess that doesn't count, but like I said, other than Cap and the FF, I've covered most of the characters.

And with the exception of Spider-Man and Daredevil, everybody else is bulky. You can't do anything about it, and everybody seems to have more muscles than the other guy. For reality's sake, you try and tone it down. But I don't go out of my way to make it difficult on myself.

JOZIC: Do you have to rethink how you do an individual page when you move from something like Daredevil to Hulk?

ROMITA, Jr.: Absolutely.

Storytelling-wise, not necessarily. Storytelling is a quality that you have to be consistent with. But visually, naturally, Spider-Man very rarely has cosmic panels and machinery stocked issues. And yet again, the difficulty with Spider-Man is streets. You have to draw the streets, you have to make sure it looks realistic, and you have to draw cars and people in clothing which takes a whole different type of mindset.

JOZIC: Do you think your being from New York adds a certain something to the overall look of Spider-Man's world?

ROMITA, Jr.: Absolutley, and I'm very proud of that fact. It makes it easier on me. I think I've shown a little of it in the street scenes.

I've been told that I'm a gritty artist - a gritty street artist - from the critics. Maybe that's what made me do a little bit better with Daredevil, and maybe a little bit better with Spider-Man because I can, at least, lend a semblance of realism to it.

I think if a guy from Alaska worked on Spider-Man, it would be tough because he would be constantly getting books out on New York City. Conversely, I couldn't draw Nanuk of the North.

JOZIC: Bringing it back to the monthly for a bit, what is it like working with Mr. Straczynski?

ROMITA, Jr.: Working with him is a pleasure. I've never met him, never spoke to him, but his scripts are great. You can't deny the quality. He could be an axe murderer and it wouldn't make a difference to me as long as the scripts come in with this [level of] quality. He's a hell of a writer. I would love to get to know him, I haven't gotten a chance.

JOZIC: So you totally support the new direction that's being taken with Amazing Spider-Man?

ROMITA, Jr.: Oh, hell yeah. Yes.

JOZIC: You alluded earlier to the fact that you're kind of protective of the character after being his caretaker for so long…

ROMITA, Jr.: Sure, but then, if that's the case, why didn't I complain when I was working on the last couple of years and the book was going nowhere? [laughter]

JOZIC: Because of the mortgage.

ROMITA, Jr.: That's right. Pay the bills.

I'm a little protective but I can't control the writer, necessarily. I've worked on my share of clunkers, and I take responsibility just like the writer does. And now, I should take some responsibility for the success of the book, but every critique I see on the title is 85-90% Straczynski, and "Oh by the way, the artwork is pretty good too." I guess that's okay. He has changed the direction of the book, and he's doubled the sales - possibly with all of his fans and possibly with just the quality in general.

JOZIC: That's one of the pitfalls with being as closely associated with the character as you are. You've been there so long people just take you for granted.

ROMITA, Jr.: [laughs] Let me tell you something. Of all the kids, or fans, who have said nasty things, this is the kind of thing that I get…well, I don't know if I consider this nasty or not, but I've been called journeyman, part of the furniture, and I've been called a legend in my own mind. All comments that basically say, "Get his grey-haired ass off the book! You've been around too long." Those critiques can be as biting as the ones that say, "You suck!"

Now I'm told that I've been revitalised with a new writer and I've proven that a journeyman can succeed again.

I was told that I should have quit Marvel a long time ago and come back, because I would have been more appreciated. I don't blame Marvel for any of the problems I've had, I blame the individual people that I've dealt with.

JOZIC: Is it because of your working on two books that you aren't doing the covers for Amazing?

ROMITA, Jr.: No, it's just the editors idea, and possibly along with Joe Quesada, of trying to maximise sales by drawing in a third set of fans to the title. [You've got] the artist who does the covers, and his fans who come along with it, adding to the sales. You can't deny the success of the books and they're running with it.

If they get enough people saying, "Hey, this is ludicrous, Romita, Jr. can do the covers just as well," then they'll give them back to me. It never was a permanent agreement, it was, "Let's try it this way and see what happens." The book wasn't selling well while I was doing the covers, so why not try something different. I have no problem with the attempt and the success is undeniable.

JOZIC: Do you know if they have a lot of high profile artists to do future covers?

ROMITA, Jr.: I heard that they have, I don't know what their names are. Other than the guys that have just recently done them, I don't know who else is in line.

At some point along the line, there's going to have to be a non-pin-up cover on the book. I mean, the covers are done five or six months in advance of the script. They're going to have to eventually get something that pertains to the inside. I don't know when that's going to happen, and I can't argue with success.

JOZIC: The last couple of issues of Amazing have, more or less, been one extended fight scene between Spider-Man and the villain of the story, Morlun. While it does happen to be a well written, and illustrated, one, is that a difficult thing to choreograph and keep interesting for you and the reader?

ROMITA, Jr.: Is it difficult to make a fight scene interesting? I think it was a great chance to choreograph a fight, as opposed to just the average fight because it had a moment of real finality to it. Spider-Man was going to lose and he realised it and said, "I'm gonna die!" He didn't say the words, but he calls his aunt and says, "I love you, I haven't said it enough," which is pretty much tantamount to saying, "I'm going to die tonight, so know that I love you forever." I think that's pretty intense.

There have been few moments where there has been underlying emotion like that in the fights that I've done. I think working with Frank Miller was similar, and there have been other writers that have done it, but [only] brief moments. But this was pretty intense and it wasn't a problem at all, although it was quite different, and I enjoyed it whole heartedly.

JOZIC: Now that you've had a little bit of distance from Thor, how do you look back at your run on the book?

ROMITA, Jr.: I looked back at it recently and I thought that the inking was fantastic, and I thought that the stories were fantastic, and it seems like it was a whole different avenue of the way I drew because of the change in the stream of my art. Just going from normal characters like Spider-Man to the cosmic world like that, where everything is extra large, and using Jack Kirby's old issues as reference, it just seemed to open up a whole different vein to my artwork. And that's a lot of fun.

It was a lot of double spreads, a lot of big images. I appreciate that from Dan Jurgens, he gave me a lot of room to play. But it's so completely different from what I'm working on in Spider-Man right now. The whole idea of the character is just completely on the other side of the scale than Thor. So when I look back on Thor, it just seems like a different artist working on it to me.

I think I remember every panel I ever worked on in various titles, and when I look back on them, even if they're twenty years old, I think, "I was sitting in this position, in this office…" But with Thor, it's a blur. I was doing two titles a month and it seemed like I was doing a book every five days. There's a certain amount of blurriness in that, but I love the way the inking looked. I think that Klaus and Dick Giordano just absolutely made me look great. [laughs] I'll have to thank them next time I see them both.

JOZIC: Do you think that working on something like Thor, which is a very big, cosmic book, opens you up a little bit to try new things when you come back to the smaller, street level characters?

ROMITA, Jr.: It can be a benefit, sure, [but] you can't really cross-reference the two characters at all. Occasionally Thor will come down and hang out in Manhattan, and there were street scenes where the ambulance is running up and down the streets. I remember the first thing I did, the first issue I did, it was a Streets of Manhattan scene. Here I am, I thought I was crossing-over into a different world and I drew half the issue in Manhattan.

But, you have to remember the size of Thor and the reaction shots. When Spider-Man comes plopping down into a group of people there's anger, it seems like. When Thor plops down into a group of people, it's like…well, it's like watching a god descend upon the Earth. So, there are different reaction shots, he should leave a dent on the sidewalk when he lands, several things like that.

That's going to happen with the Hulk, too. I have to understand that. I'm drawing the Midwest in the Hulk. I'm drawing Kansas while I'm working on the Hulk and it's a lot easier to draw distant fields of grain and corn than drawing the Manhattan skyline. So, you do have to be conscious of the change, but you can take into account reaction shots. You know you have to have some kind of fantastic reaction shots.

This is nothing that every other artist doesn't understand. Everybody understands this goes with it, but crossing titles, unless you're an automaton, you have to be conscious of the difference between the two. And you have to have something common in it if you're in the same world. We're on Earth, and people are going to react, and cars are going to look the same, and the ground is going to look the same and there's going to be cracks in the walls…We're basically drawing the fantastic into a normal world.

JOZIC: You've been absent from the pages of Incredible Hulk for the last few months…

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, there was a five issue gap when they were working on getting a new writer. After I finished my last issue with Paul Jenkins, they said, "Were going to give you four or five issues off, get a new writer, get you some new plots and we're going to deliver it pretty much the way we delivered you and Straczynski on Amazing." And that's the plan. Bruce Jones is going to be writing the Hulk, and I just finished two issues of the new run on the book.

I'm sure it had public relations written all over it in the eyes of the editors. They're going to try and re…I can't say re-launch, but throw you back into the eyes of the public with the Hulk and try to maximise public relations and sales on it by getting new writers and a new cover artist the way they did with Amazing. The editor, who is the same editor, Axel Alonso, is looking for the same kind of bang for the buck, and I hope we get the same impression and effect.

JOZIC: And how is working on the book so far for you?

ROMITA, Jr.: Fine. It's a lot of fun. Bruce Jones is brilliant. When he was younger and I was younger, I read his stuff in Creepy…or was it Eerie? I forgot which one. I apologise Bruce.

But, the plots are great. They're very, very down to earth, these first couple of plots. Very little of the Hulk shows. It's all Bruce Banner. It was right up my alley. A lot of clothes and a lot of rooms and buildings, and a lot of down to earth stuff.

JOZIC: This is a bit out of left field, but do you have any plans of returning to Daredevi1? I was a big fan of yours and Ann Nocenti's run on the book and it would be great to see you doing the character again.

ROMITA, Jr.: I don't have plans for it. But I don't know what the future holds. I have no idea. It would be fun to return to it, but I don't know if that's going to happen.

JOZIC: I suppose the move to Marvel Knights may have made that an impossibility.

ROMITA, Jr.: I don't know. As long as Joe Quesada enjoys my work he could say, "We think you'd look great on Daredevil. We're going to drop you off of the Hulk and put you on Daredevil." That would be great, I just don't want to give up Spider-Man.

JOZIC: [laughs]

ROMITA, Jr.: When the movie comes out, if the movie smells like bad cheese, then maybe I'll consider getting off the character.

I'm joking.

I just can't see myself not doing Spider-Man. And until they put a gun to my head and say, "Get out of here," I'll stay on the character.

JOZIC: You've taken breaks before.

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, but when I took my last break from Amazing it took me a long time to get back on it. Some guy named Bagley just wouldn't let go. So, if I take a break, then some other genius will come in and I won't be able to get back on it again.

JOZIC: Regarding your abandoned Doctor Strange pitch, I recently read a comment by Tom Brevoort while doing some research for the interview where he said, "So while it's still possible for it to happen, it's nowhere near definite, other than that JRJR and Harlan seem to want to do it. In other words, for the time being put it in line right behind that Grant Morrison FF project."

ROMITA, Jr.: [laughs]

JOZIC: Seeing as how Morrison's FF1234 is currently on the shelves, is there any hope for Doctor Strange?

ROMITA, Jr.: No. Tom's right. It's gone and out of the world. Working on Doctor Strange is a possibility, but not that story.

JOZIC: You also had a short film that you submitted to Sundance?

ROMITA, Jr.: Yes.

JOZIC: How did that do?

ROMITA, Jr.: It did not get accepted. It was too long. It had to be edited to a shorter length of time. It's a 30 minute film that needs to be edited down to 15 minutes and we've been declined in every film festival, with the exception of one or two minor ones. I think we have to re-edit it down to 15 minutes.

It's a great story, a true story, about a friend of mine and I acted a little bit in it. It made me realise that I will never, ever be an actor and I don't know if I'll ever be a director, but I know that I'd like to work in the movie industry in some respect.

JOZIC: Was that disheartening?

ROMITA, Jr.: No, no, it wasn't disheartening, it was humbling. All I saw was nose when I looked at the screen. I don't like looking at my nose from the outside.

It's humbling as far as an actor goes, but I think that anybody in comics with a tendency towards quality storytelling can be in the movie industry, especially comic book people who have great ideas all the time. Hollywood loves the fantastic, and I think comic book people all have that in mind, so I think that anybody can go from the comic industry to the movie business.

JOZIC: Well, just look at the Matrix guys.

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, I agree. And a lot of actors who are growing up in front of us, guys in their twenties and thirties, all grew up on comics, it seems like. I just heard Freddie Prinze, Jr. on Howard Stern last week talking about it, and I wanted to reach through and talk to them about Spider-Man but couldn't get through.

JOZIC: Do you plan to try again with film?

ROMITA, Jr.: Yes.

JOZIC: Anytime soon?

ROMITA, Jr.: We'll stretch that word, "soon". I've got a couple of short film ideas coming up and I'm going to work on it without ever attempting to spend a dime on it. I've spent more than I ever will spend on making movies. I'm going to try and get other people to pay for them.

Yeah, there's a couple of idea that I have, and I've got some other movie treatments that I'm working on. Let's just put it this way, I'm keeping my day job. If Hollywood falls off the face of the Earth tomorrow, I still will be doing Spider-Man.

I don't know how people can rely on Hollywood for work because it's gut-wrenching knowing that the next day you may never be heard from again.

JOZIC: Bringing it back to Spider-Man again, how are you finding the creative teams on both Spidey books? Do you guys communicate at all, or…

ROMITA, Jr.: I don't communicate with anybody except the editor on the book. Nobody seems to be talking to me. I've spoken with Paul Jenkins, he's a great guy, but we never got into crossing the Spider-Man continuity. The writers, possibly - Paul and Straczynski - but I'm not sure.

JOZIC: And what do you think of the overall direction of both Spider-Man books these days?

ROMITA, Jr.: The overall direction of the character? It's great. I love it. I mean, the books are doing well, after doing terribly for a while, so obviously it's very successful and I'm very happy with that.

	Mike Jozic has spent the last several years interviewing comic book creators and other entertainment related personalities for various publications. He has been published both online and in print, with his work appearing in The Comics Journal, FearsMag.com and Silver Bullet Comicbooks. He maintains his own website at www.meanwhile.net and currently serves as the Features Editor for SBC.