Tony DiGerolamo: Writer, Creator, Publisher and Improv Performer

Ken Dreger: You write three series that I'm aware of: The Travelers, Jersey Devil and The Fix. Could you give us a quick synopsis of each?

Tony DiGerolamo: The Travelers: It's sort of like Dungeons and Dragons meets the Three Stooges or Monty Python and the Holy Grail meet Monty Python and the Holy Grail only taller. The stories center around a group of characters that started an adventuring club, but don't get along personally.

Jersey Devil: It's based after the 266 year-old folktale and it's kind of like action and ghost stories. I like to call it "Folknoir". We're continuing a tradition that began through basic storytelling and has evolved into the comic book.

The Fix: The Fix comic book series is based after the same character from my novel, Fix in Overtime. Basically, it's about the most powerful substance in the Universe and the world's worst detective. It's sort of like Clerks meets Freaky Links meets a lot of other stuff.

KD:  What motivated you to move The Travelers into Kenzer and Company?

TD: I had met Manny Vega, who was one of the people behind Avelon. At some point, I found out his comic had been picked up by Kenzer, so I decided I'd send my in. Jolly Blackburn and the guys really like it and gave me a nice review, so I asked them if they could help me publish and they signed me up.

KD: Does having Kenzer and Company publish The Travelers make your life easier? Is there a benefit to having someone else publish it versus publishing it through South Jersey Press? 

TD: Hell, yeah! They gave me access to their fans, distributors, marketing, money--- I can just sit back and make the comics and not get all bent out of shape about where my next 2 grand for printing is coming from. They made it make money.

KD: I'm quite enjoying The Travelers and I'm surprised that it doesn't get more press considering that Brian Dawson's pencils are very nice and your writing is appealing for its wit and humor. Why do you think it hasn't appealed to "mainstream" comic readers?

TD: Well, I think it does appeal to comic readers. The problem is, most comic readers do not see it because most stores will not order comics published outside of the major publishers. We are slowly gaining ground and I have no doubt I will be fielding emails and calls from desparate "Johnny-come-lately" retailers who will want to know why we're out of stock. However, let me make it clear, I do not blame the retailers. The business of comics is a wreck thanks to larger publishers. Many people blame the distributors, but it was the publishers the capitulated to the insane system currently in operation. Kenzer is one of the few comic book companies that are "outside" the "mainstream" comics system. Therefore, we are able to let titles develop and build a readership, as opposed to fans that blindly collect. Our fans are new or returning fans rediscovering comics, we are not competing  for the guys that have been buying superheroes for 30 years.

KD: An ongoing joke in the series is the changing of the club's "name". Do you borrow some of your ideas from people who play adventure type games (the sort of infighting and arguing)? Does Travelers progress in its stories or is each issue a separate story or both?

TD: I actually just had a terrible time coming up with a name for the series. Nothing I came up with seem to encompass the entire "world" of the series. It's extremely detailed, so I ended up with a kind of generic name. Of course, the point of the series is, the name doesn't matter. It's really about a group of friends.

Each issue of The Travelers is a separate story, so you won't feel lost if you pick up the current issue. In issue #9, "Archimedes and the Wooden Time Machine", the issue does start with the characters being stranded in Sicily, but you don't need to know the why's and how's of how they got stranded because that's not what the story is about. We do just enough recap so you know what's going on, while at the same time hinting about past issues. I designed like the old Marvel or DC books: There's more to the story IF you want to buy the back issues, but they are not crucial to understanding the current continuity, which is always changing.

I think the problem with most major publishers is that they can no longer justify their convoluted continuities, so they've destroyed them by starting over. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to use creators with the same creative clout--- Only the original creator has the ability to say, "This character wouldn't do that or would do this" everyone else is just an employee punching a clock. That's why people should abandoned mainstream comics. Most of them are written and drawn by guys who are more concerned about their paycheck and their next job then then entertaining people.

KD: Do you see comics as laid out like Hellboy in distinctly separate story arcs the better way to go versus something like Spiderman or Superman that are past 400+ issues? Does keeping something going that long make it lack any redeeming value to the reader? 

TD: The inevitable trend in 400+ run is this: First, the creator/creators are dead or long gone, so you only have hired hands. Good ones get put on dog books and build them up with their fan base. So if Writer G is a hot writer that everyone wants to read, I put him on Toilet Man #367 because sales are off. Once he builds the audience back up, I let his contract lasp after a year and then put no-name talents on the book. The no-names are sometimes good, but usually not. However, Writer G now has thousands of new readers that have ordered Toilet Man 3 months in advance. By the time they realize the drop in quality, I've made my money and start doing it again with another comic. Publishers need to make up their minds: Do they age Superman and Spiderman or not? You can't have both.

KD: Will you be consider doing a TPB of the first 5 or 6 issues of The Travelers to attract the growing TPB audience?

TD: Nothing official yet, but I'm hoping Kenzer will opt to do that. (Just as soon as we finish off the stock for issues 1-6).

KD: Do you think though that sitting on the stock is a double edged sword? On  one case it's lost money if you produce at TPB and the back stock of issues becomes unsellable due to the popularity of TPB's but on the other side by not releasing a TPB you missing out on sales and a larger audience?

TD: Nah. They're selling. Just not as fast as I'd like. I'm impatient anyways. These things take time. 

KD:  I read in one of The Travelers issues that these characters actually came from characters you created for gaming in the past. It's funny because The Travelers doesn't feel like a gaming comic as you present the characters as real people versus gaming characters. Do you think being part of Kenzer has labeled it a gaming comic?

TD: I'm not sure what you mean by "gaming comic", but I think being part of Kenzer has done nothing but help the book. Kenzer's audience is perfect for The Travelers. We're currently in the process of discussing projects that will make The Travelers more visible at Kenzer.

Pages 5 and 6 of The Travelers #7

KD: Do you think the humor element, versus something like BattleChasers, which isn't purposely funny, keeps some of the audience from buying it?

TD: No. The problem is, the comic is aimed at readers. Most of the current comic fans are not "reading comic fans". Many of them are more interested in the art. Additionally, thanks to my illustrious associates in the world of comics, most current fans are fickle because they've been burned too many times. Anotherwords, you've got one issue to capture their interest or you're toast.

Also, you've got the whole numbering thing, which makes fans shy away if they don't have a #1. The Travelers is a comic that you need to read carefully and get to know the characters. If you're patient, you'll see all six characters emerge over the course of several issues. However, if you're not patient, you are probably under the impression that every issue is about Barbara or Shambles because you've only read #3 or #6. Good comics need time to develop. You did not get all the Batman villains in issue Detective Comics #27, it evolved to include the Joker, Two-Face, Robin, the Bat Cave, Batgirl, etc. I can't show you the whole world of The Travelers in one issue, it's too big. And I also can't keep doing issues that skim the surface of that world to show you the highlights (that was issue #1).

What I CAN do is present you a good story with snappy dialogue, but only IF you are willing to hold me only to those standards and not the standards of a 30 year-old comic book that has 30 years of history and hundreds of creators and millions of dollars behind it. Everyone needs to be able to throw away their old notions of what a comic book SHOULD be, so we can show you what it CAN be.

KD: It's always hard to pinpoint the comic reading audience and yet in the past it's implied that, as a majority, it's white, male 24-30 years old and these are the type of people (like myself) who would enjoy The Travelers. Do you go to many comic conventions to promote The Travelers and, if so, who do you see there who tries The Travelers and likes it? Are they the majority of people at the convention?

TD: We do tons of promotion. I'd say I do about 30 cons a year. Now, I did a lot of weird cons before I met the Kenzer guys. Folklore/craft shows and haunted house signings for the Jersey Devil and local cons like the Philly Con and the
Wildwood Con. Unfortunately, what I found out after about 2-3 years of doing comic shows is that I saw MOST OF THE SAME PEOPLE AT EVERY SHOW. The NYC guys would come to the Philly show and vice versa. Now, those guys were mostly white males, ages 24-30. I think I got a slightly higher female audience with Jersey Devil because I noticed a lot of women were into horror, especially at shows like Chiller Theater.

After joining up with Kenzer, a whole new world opened up. Gaming cons! I had done sci-fi cons, which were close to gaming cons, but not many "true" gaming cons like Gen Con. Well, let me tell you, the fans were COMPLETELY different there. They have money! Lots of it! They don't come for just a DAY, like most comic con attendees, they come for a week of gaming! They tend to be older and split 65/35, men/women. The best part is, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT WHAT A COMIC BOOK SHOULD BE. Consequently, if it's interesting, they buy it. They could care less about the art, they want to know if the story's good. Big difference.

KD: The Fix is an interesting premise. It's based on a novel but, if my impression is correct, it's a sort of continuation of it. What made you decide to try such a format?

TD: The Fraim brothers and myself had pitched it to dozens of comic book companies and NO ONE was interested. This is very strange to me considering the hoopla over graphic novels at the book expo this year. We tried it because we thought it worked and was different. We're marketing the novel, which contains 19 pages of comic book story and chapterhead illustrations, to book stores. We're releasing the comic series (4 issues, monthly) starting in July. The two will be cross promoted. The Jersey Devil makes an appearance in the novel, so I'm hoping the JD fans will check it out.

Pages 16 and 17 of Jersey Devil #11

KD: How are the 19 pages of comic book story laid out in The Fix novel?

TD: There is a 16 page story that is a prologue to the whole novel. It reads as a separate story, but ties in because its an important story about Fix. You can read the story while standing in the bookstore, get hooked and then buy the book. Chapter illustrations through out and then a 3 page epilogue at the end.

KD:  Also what is the size of the novel?

TD: About 200 pages. It's a real book.

KD: Matt Wagner came out with a Grendel Prime novel and Mike Mignola came out with a Hellboy novel that sound similar to what you're talking about with chapterhead illustrations. Since The Fix is a new  creation do you think that it'll be harder to find an audience - relative to the fact that comics are having a tough go of it right now with expanding their audience?

TD: We're marketing it to fans of science fiction. We love the comic fans too, but unfortunately, right now, they are too few. Additionally, they are at the mercy of retailers who cannot afford to order everything in Previews and the entire industry is at the mercy of large publishers who continue to glut the market. Fix should stand out on a shelf, except when you have 19 different mini-series promising the death of a mainstream superhero, you can't get shelf space. I'm not worried. There's plenty of room at Borders and Barnes and Noble.

KD: Do you find that there is a big difference in publishing a novel versus a comic (aside from the cost and time in producing it)?

TD: Yeah, novels are slower, if you can believe that. It's taken forever. (Of course, I have the attention span of a fruitfly, but...) I think I wrote the novel in '95 and signed the deal in '99. With "print-on-demand" books, however, the publishing world is making big changes. The same thing will eventually happen to comic books. Another thing about novels is, the write is appreciated. (I'd guess you'd have to be, right?) In comics, fans could give a crap about the writing. It's totally secondary, which is a shame. If there's a good writer, say like Ennis, what do I care if he changes artists 10 times? 

I think a lot comic fans have become disillusioned by the medium, so their demands go up and up until they stop buying altogether. The entire comics medium is rife with nepotism, thievery and just plain, rip-offs, in my opinion. And, there's no place to complain about it, because all, repeat, ALL major "voices" for the comic book industry are just as biased as the publishers themselves. As a matter of fact, the line between comic fan, comic creator, comic publisher, comic distributor, comic retailer and comic journalist is so
blurred, you can hardly separate them and NONE, repeat, NONE of the comic journalists are held to any sort of standard, in my opinion. Mainly because no one cares. 

How can you make any changes in a medium when there is only one, functioning distributor, but the FTC declared it was NOT a monopoly?

KD:  Have you had much interest or looked at having The Fix become a film?

TD: It's too early to discuss that.

KD: Do you ever plan on doing any sort of superhero comic or do you think that aspect of the medium is done to death? Do you think that the there's many comic "readers" left versus comic "collectors"? Why I ask is that X-Men sold well for so many years even though the writing was arguably sub-par and so .

TD: There is no great mystery as to why the same mainstream comics continue to sell. The entire comic book industry has been bought and sold by those publishers with the money. They dominate the landscape and, in my opinion, force retailers into purchasing. Let me give you an example of what I mean: Big Publisher X knows that comic book stores purchase merchandise that is non-returnable. They also know, many of the stores have very close profit margins. So, how do you drive your competition off the shelf? You do it by flooding it with many, many titles. This forces the retailer to choose between an unknown independent title and an unknown Big Publisher X title. And guess what, the latter will probably get him at least 1 or 2 sales, guaranteed, while the independent stuff might not sell at all. 

There's nothing wrong with that, on the surface. This is a capitalistic society after all. However, what it does is this: It chokes the shelf with an additional title that Big Publisher X didn't even need and although this is devastating and drives the independent guys away, in the long run, Big Publisher X looses fans. And, since most comic book stores are supported by fans of Big Publisher X, we loose more stores, independent publishers and the vicious downward spiral continues.

KD: Have you considered convincing Kenzer to do something like Top Shelf and make your comics returnable, thereby taking away that risk for the comic store? 

TD: It's hard for me to consider something like that, when I gave away a Free Preview for The Fix and I got emails from fans saying retailers sold it to the first customer that had any interest in it. I've been a manager at a comic book store, so I know what its like to fill out the orders. You've got to be on top of the publishers or just carry everything. Only the big companies could make returnable comics work for the whole industry. Indie publishers need deep pockets to make returnables work and if they had deep pockets, they wouldn't need to make their books returnable. Besides, every single issue Kenzer puts out is sellable because THEY ARE SELF-CONTAINED STORIES.

Big Publisher X may be on top, but its slowly driving it and everyone else down and down and down. Big Publisher X is also scared because its readership continues to shrink every month and the more desperate Big Publisher X gets, the more willing it is to pull crazy stunts and drive fans out of the medium. Take a look at all the issues of all the big publishers this month, then ask yourself, "This time next year, what will be on the shelf then?" The answer is, THE SAME DAMN THING.

But I don't want to sound all doom and gloom. Fans are slowly coming back to the medium, but they've become more savy. They've been burned once, so now Big Publisher X's marketing campaigns are being seen for what they are. Comic book publishers that are looking forward to a growth in READERSHIP over the next 3 years will continue to grow, slowly, but steadily. Those who continue  to offer gimmicks and crap have strained their creditability and their piece of the pie just gets smaller and smaller.

KD: Speaking of gimmicks, do you think Image has, because of past behaviour, done itself irrefutable harm?

TD: In my opinion, Image has done an equal amount of good and harm to the industry and itself. On the one hand, they made creator-owned comics real. I mean, they had existed in the past, but the guys at Image used that as a selling point, inadvertantly educating every fan that wanted to get into comics that he/she had to own the character or be very careful. Is there now a fanboy alive that doesn't know what a copyright and trademark is? Unfortunately, as time wore on, it was clear the Image guys had the attention of the fanboys, but they really didn't have anything else to say. And, just because you own a logo, trademark
or copyright to a story doesn't mean it's any good.

My sense is that Image is slowing down and there is no one to pick up the momentum that Todd once gave the company. They have ridden on their novelty far too long. It's time for them to be smart, interesting and dynamic. Instead, most of the stuff I see coming out of Image is the same old thing. They have the money and the talent to change the entire comic book industry, but they are just sitting on their hands. A perfect comic for Image would be an anthology comic book. A thick magazine full of serialized stories. This would give them an opportunity to develop a comic book series and a fan base before they launch another 15 books to die on the shelf. It would need to be supported, most likely with Spawn, Savage Dragon and Fathom/Witchblade/Hot Chick strips, to get people to read it. Unfortunately, I think most of the Image creators know such a venture would lose them money for at least 2 years. I also don't see an editorial vision that's consistent with the entire line. "Desperate Times", "Red Star", "Battle Chasers" and "Astounding Space Thrills" are all wildly different comic books. They each need different marketing, not just to be thrown into Previews with a
"Hey, buy Image comics" slapped on them.

Is the damage irrefutable? The real question is, is the damage to the entire comic book industry irrefutable thanks to the screwy business deal that drove half the stores out of business? Image can run on fumes from now until all the Image creators drop dead. They're all insanely rich. There needs to be a fundamental shift in the way comic books are made, sold and promoted. In order for that change to be effective, it needs to be spearheaded by the most visible comic book publishers and IT NEEDS TIME TO DEVELOP. But don't worry, Kenzer & Company's pockets may not be as deep at Image's (yet), but we're rolling the snowball down the mountain and it's gaining in size and momentum. So, in conclusion, I'd like to say to all the fanboys and fangirls who were nice enough to read this interview to come by my website and Kenzer's - I promise that if you read our comics you'll get your money's worth and you won't feel like you got burned.

KD: A big thank you to Tony!  He set aside a fair bit of time here for the interview.  Don't forget that The Fix #1 just came out last week (July 5th), The Fix #3 is solicited in this month's (July 2001) Previews (page 300) and although The Travelers isn't solicited in July Previews it should be under Kenzer & Company in next months (August 2001) Previews.  As well you can get ahold of back issue of any of the series either at Tony's Website or through Cold Cut Distribution.