Evan Dorkin: Hectic Artist

By Ian Ungstad

SBC's Ian Ungstad had an opportunity to speak to Evan Dorkin recently, here are the results...


Ian Ungstad: What kind of music do you listen to? It appears that your interested in a lot of the underground stuff.

Evan Dorkin: These days I'm far less on top of what's going on in music, underground, overground, top 40, whatever. We dropped off everyone's mailing lists years ago and I rarely buy CD's, no time, and with too many hobbies, no dough. I listen to several local college and freeform stations in the NYC area and that's mainly where I'm hearing new or off the beaten track stuff, WFMU has shows on everything from punk to death metal to hillbilly to electronic and drum and bass, but nothing in partiuclar is in any real rotation so it's hard to get a grip on what's actually going on in the "music scene".

Ungstad: I'm familiar with some of your animation works, but what are your currently working on?

Dorkin: Sarah [Dyer] and I scripted for all 7 seasons of Space Ghost Coast to Coast, did 4 eps of Superman, one Batman Beyond, bible and redevelopment for the proposed Skeleton Key show for Sunbow (based on Andi Watson's comic) which may get picked up (but, of course, might not) and currently we're producing an Eltingville Club half hour pilot for the Cartoon Network, which I'm writing, designing, and executive producing.

Ungstad: A lot of independent creators avoid working for larger companies, but you have done so recently with DC. Do you mind working for bigger companies if you could do creator owned material? I'm just wondering because I'm note an increasing trend with you, Paul Pope, Ed Brubaker, Bill Willingham, and so on.

Dorkin: I've actually done work here and there for the bigger companies ever since I started doing comics, I was able to do comics full-time in '91 between a Dark Horse Predator gig and a year's run doing the Bill And Ted's comic for Marvel. I've done a few Superman Adventures scripts with Sarah in the past for DC. The years where I tried to do no work for the mainstream were the years where I starved the most, and eventually I made a decision to work on mainstream projects when they came along, were fun and or/interesting, and were of my own idea, more or less.

I'll probably always keep a hand in the mainstream here and there, I genuinely and generally like the idea of superhero comics (of a certain style/type, and at least a degree of intelligence), but I have no real desire to spend all my time furthering the adventures of copyright man for a parent company; getting paid to basically write fan fiction I don't have any ownership of or real participation in.

Our philosophy, if you could call it that, is to use the mainstream to use the dough to help pay bills and keep our personal indy projects going, and have some fun playing with DC or whoever's toys. I've turned down most of the mainstream jobs offered to me, not always out of a sense of "the mainstream is bad", but because the gigs aren't right for me or my sensibility, would take too much time and effort that could be spent on other things that make me happier. I can't speak for other indy creators as to why they will or won't work for Marvel, DC, and the others. There are guys like Brubaker who seemed hardline anti-mainstream and are now deep in Batman-land, and guys like Gilbert Hernandez who is doing his own thing for Vertigo, but isn't interested in the characters DC has. Lotsa these folks have done small jobs for Marvel, DC in the past, there's always been a small migration of indy talent to the bigger teams, but lately we're seeing an infusion of odder creators - Pope, Gilbert, all the Highwater/Top Shelf types working on the Bizarro humor series at DC like Craig Thompson, Jessica Abel - and me getting Mazzucchelli, Jaime Hernandez, Woodring, Jay Stephens on World's Funnest last year, and I personally have no problem with that.

And to answer the other part of your question, I'd have no problem whatsoever doing a creator owned book at DC or Marvel, as long as I had some sort of guarantee that I would be allowed to proceed on the book as I saw fit, meaning little to no creator interference. I can't see doing anything like that in the near future though, as I can't find time to do any kind of continued or short series and have too much on my plate as it is. But I wouldn't rule it out.

The only problem I have with a creator who leaps headlong into mainstream-dom is when a guy continually barks about how rotten Marvel or whoever is, and then grabs the brass ring when it's offered, abandoning his personal work and former readers. But that's what happens, in film, music, etc. A lot of punks/cartoonists/comedians never thought they'd be allowed into the mainstream and get access to big dough and audiences, so they spend years slagging the establishment until the day they magically are allowed to join in. As for me, I always slagged everything equally, the mainstream, the indy scene, the fans, myself, and I'll continue, hopefully, to slag everything whether I do more TV, more mainstream, more indy stuff, whatever.

Ungstad: I just know that it's difficult to get the material into shops. I live in a pretty small town, in which the shop seems more interested in Pokemon and Magic Cards, and even pre-ordering a lot of times it's a headache since they never get in what you ordered.

Dorkin: Plenty of shops in big towns/cities are like that as well. Many retailers only order what they themsleves are fans of, and are too lazy to grow a customer base, diversify, and clean the shop up. But don't get me started. These days some indy books outsell some DC and Marvel and Image and DHC titles, but 70-90 percent of retailers still won't order any non-mainstream stuff.

Hell, many of them don't order anything from DHC that isn't Star Wars or DC crossovers, and skip all Vertigo books. It's a great medium, but it's also an ass backwards industry.

Ungstad: I'm glad that creators such as the Los. Bros Hernandez got the numbers they did on Love And Rockets Vol.2 maybe we'll see more exposure for those types of books.

Dorkin: Case in point - these guys have put out more work than ever since L&R ended, but half the industry thought they stopped doing books, because they didn't see the L&R logo any more.

Unbelievable.

Ungstad: I ordered David Boring from the shop, but had to end up buying it in a book store. Ironic isn't it?

Dorkin: And that's money a retailer loses, and then he complains he isn't making money. Which is why I have very little sympathy for the majority of shops out there that utterly fail at doing their job, because they'd rather be enjoying their hobby.

Ungstad: Going back to the topic of working in the mainstream, what do you feel about the emergence of imprints designed for creator-owned work, such as Homage, or Minotaur?

Dorkin: Many of these deals involve co-owning the property with Time-Warner, and I'm sure Time Warner has first refusal rights to the material, meaning they could conceivably option and tie-up your rights forever and a day but never make anything from the material if they so choose. It's simply not the same as owning your work outright, you give up a paycheck and the Diamond press, but nowadays a lot of creators have as large an audience in the indy morass as in the mainstream; readership is that shrivelled and skewed. And this is with a majority of shops ignoring the indy books, to boot.

I also hate the idea of ads being sprinkled in my books, ads for books I don't like or want to be associated with. And you get cancelled much more quickly at Vertigo or Wildstorm and the rest if you don't knock a home run outta the park sales-wise, or even a solid double. In the small press it's a little harder to have your work cut off, you really have to stink or flake off or disappear to get the can at an outfit like SLave Labor Graphics.

Ungstad: Not that I would compare it to Fantagraphics, Slave Labor, or Drawn and Quaterly. I think one thing that really needs to be done, is to push these creator owned books (non-superhero properties particularly) to a mainstream market, ironic considering independents tend to be considered a part of the comics subculture.

Dorkin: I disagree with you there, on the whole the majority of so-called indy or alternative comics out there are more mainstream in content and genre than the niche wonkiness of superhero soap opera and fight scenes. Humor, politics, romance, sex, gender issues, horror, crime and history have a more accepting audience out there on the whole than supertypes, blockbuster movies notwithstanding.

Books like Stray Bullets, Bone, Love and Rockets, Strangers In Paradise, Sin City, Dork, Safe Area Gorazde, Hate, and Minimum Wage are considered alternative, when all they are are crime books, romance books, soap operas, slice of life stories, humor books, all-ages fantasy stories. That's how ass-backwards this industry is.

As far as pushing these sorts of books into the mainstream, everyone talks about this, but nobody does anything about it to any great effect. It takes time, money and professional salesmanship and marketing, and as an industry, comics is impatient, low on funds, and fannish in it's approach.

Ungstad: It at least will create a financial viability for independent creators to pursue their work, with you being lucky enough to supplement your income with animation work.

Dorkin: Will never happen, because the big 2 don't like taking risks.

But neither do the fans or the retailers, who meet practically every "risky" venture with a deafening yawn, because when the average comic fan or pro moans that they want to see more "good comics" being made, what they really mean is they want good superhero comics.

Ungstad: I recently got the Scary Godmother Holiday Spooktacular, [and I] really liked your pin-up. Jill Thompson is a hoot.

Dorkin: She is. Glad you liked the pin-up, I was actually very happy with it.

Ungstad: Planning on attending San Diego this year?

Dorkin: Actually, Sarah and I are thinking about skipping it this year.

Ungstad: What creators and books do you recommend people go out of their way to find? The new blood of the industry so to speak (and hey, I'm looking for a few new books to buy anyways)?

Dorkin: Not necessarily new blood: Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez (Love And Rockets, Luba, Penny Century), Dan Clowes (Eightball and the trade collections from it, like Ghost World), Chris Ware (Acme Novelty Library, and the collected Jimmy Corrigan), Paul Grist (Kane, Jack Staff), Joe Sacco (Safe Area Gorazde, Palestine), Kyle Baker (Cowboy Wally, Why I Hate Saturn), Carol Lay (Now Endsville, Joyride), Ben Katchor (Julius Knipl), Jim Woodring (Frank), Jay Stephens (Land of Nod, Jetcat), Will Eisner (The Spirit, A Contract With God), Whiteout by Rucka and Lieber, Eddie Campbell (Bacchus, Alec), Ivan Brunetti (Schizo), Marc Hempel (Tug And Buster), the Lone Wolf And Cub series DHC is doing now, the Plastic Man Archives from DC, any reprints of Popeye, Prince Valiant, Little Orphan Annie, and plenty more I cannot recall off the top of my head right now, sorry. Oh -- Dylan Horrocks' Hicksville collection. Must-have stuff.

New stuff/newer creators: Drawn and Quarterly Vol. 3, Brian Ralph (Cave-In), Craig Thompson (Goodbye Chunky Rice), Chynna Clugston Major (Blue Monday), Elizabeth Watasin (Charm School), Johnny Ryan (Angry Youth Comics). I'm unfortunately behind on new and emerging stuff coming out, not enough time and dough to keep up on all the interesting and downright good material being produced (and barely selling) these days. Currently planning on checking out Gemma Bovary, Brian Bigg's stuff, Skeeber Bee Bye, Big Clay Pot, things I'm hearing good word of mouth on.

Ungstad: What are you currently working on in comics?

Dorkin: Comics - Dork #9 for July, Milk And Cheese #8 for late 2001 (fingers crossed), a third Hectic Planet trade and a reprint issue of Hectic Planet featuring the three 8-pg Dark Horse Presents strips from '97 (both April), a Dork trade of most of issues 1-5 (June), and Slave Labor Graphics should have the Milk & Chesse beer mugs and bowling shirt ready sometime this year which I designed last year. I just finished up the art for a 16 page strip for Sarah Dyer's co-ed Action Girl special, I'm writing 12 pages for DC's upcoming Bizarro Comics project, for which I'm also drawing 7 pages written by Ivan Brunetti. Sarah and I are finishing up a two-part storyline for DC's Superman Adventures, and we're doing a one page strip for Where's It at Sugar Kat? #3.

I also just drew the cover for the Pittsburgh Comicon's new mailing.

Animation -- I'm the creator/writer and a producer on the Eltingville Club animated pilot now in production for the Cartoon Network. Sarah Dyer's serving as story editor and executive producer for the project as well.

Ungstad: Can you talk about your experience with the Deadline magazine?

Dorkin: In a nutshell, it was a great experience, I had an interesting forum to do oddball material in, build up a lot of Milk and Cheese strips for the eventual reprints, meet some very cool artists and for a short time, form a sort of cartoonist community with them as the token yank, to boot. I got to travel to the UK four times and went on a tour of same, did signings and cons there, spent time in many pubs, had some great meals, had my work in a magazine on newsstands in Britain, and got paid for my work on a semi-regular basis. It was a great deal of fun and I was sorry when the magazine started to fall apart, I was also doing less original work for them but planned to do more, until finally Deadline stopped publication.

Also, for the bulk of it's existence, I really liked Deadline's strips, especially Phil Bond's work, Hugo Tate, Jamie Hewlett's stuff. A good experience all around.

Ungstad: So... do Milk and Cheese still talk to you?

Dorkin: I'm the only one they talk to. They've been pestering me to do a new issue and if all goes well, maybe there'll be one by New Year's.

Ungstad: If the Eltingville Club does debut on the Cartoon Network, does DC get the right to publish the comic since they have the rights to the Cartoon Network library? Any merchandising plans?

Dorkin: a) No b) No.

Ungstad: The status of Hectic Planet?

Dorkin: I hope to do some new Hectic Planet material next year. A lot depends also on Eltingville, if a series gets ordered, I dunno if I'll have much time for anything but the show for a while. But that's a ways off, and for now I'm drawing comics in my "spare time" from the pilot.

Get more info on Evan Dorkin at his website: http://www.houseoffun.com

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