Documenting Modern Masters with Eric Nolen-Weathington

By Tim O'Shea

I always look forward to interviewing the designer and editor of TwoMorrows Publishing’s Modern Masters’ series, Eric Nolen-Weathington, as he is always working on non-fiction books that I’m very interested in reading. As the major driving force behind TwoMorrows’ Modern Masters series, Nolen-Weathington has delved into the work ethics and thought processes of many sequential artists. This interview started out focusing on Kevin Maguire, but soon grew to cover Mike Wieringo, Walter Simonson—and the most recent Modern Masters release—Charles Vess.

Tim O’Shea (TOS): Given how rarely Kevin Maguire has been interviewed, how hard was it to make this book happen? And once you got into looking at what you had in terms of interview content, were you surprised at how different a tone the interviews seemed to take versus past Modern Masters?

Eric Nolen-Weathington (ENW): Well, the lion's share of the effort fell to my partner on the book, George Khoury. He was the primary contact with Kevin, and conducted all the interviews and went to Kevin's place to go through the art with him. To be honest, when George first threw out Kevin's name for a book, I wasn't immediately sold on the idea. It seemed to me at the time that he really hadn't done enough. But George was really enthusiastic about it, and after I thought about it some more and talked it over further with George, I decided Kevin really was a good choice for the series, after all. Kevin has had much more of an impact on the comic book industry than people might think. That being said, this was probably the most difficult book to put together I've done so far-as I'm sure George would attest to. And, yes, while I try to keep the books upbeat, for the most part, this one does get a little depressing at times. It's an open and honest dialogue with Kevin, and I think the reader will come away with a pretty good idea of just who Kevin is as an artist and as a person.

TOS: How do you and your co-writers typically break down responsibilities on a book? How do you come up with who you're going to cover in a book, as well as who you might work with?

ENW: If I'm doing one of the books with someone else, typically they handle the interview (setting up the times, doing the research, etc.) and I handle everything else. If the opportunity is available, they will also go over specific pieces of artwork for the book with the artist.

The first five volumes of the series I did entirely on my own, in my spare time. Volume 6 on Arthur Adams I did with George Khoury. We'd been friends for a while and one day he mentioned he'd love to interview Art sometime, so I asked him if he wanted to work with me on a Modern Masters book. I never had the intention of working with anyone else after that, but once that book came out people started calling TwoMorrows to see if they could do a Modern Masters book, too. Normally I would have politely turned them all down, but between our new daughter and my wife's recent medical problems, I just didn't have time to do everything myself and still have the books come out on a regular basis. Last September I left my staff position at TwoMorrows (the only full-time staff position at TwoMorrows, by the way) to do the Modern Masters books full time, so I'll go back to doing most of the books myself. But I'll still do two or three collaborations a year, mostly with a few of the guys I've already worked with, since I know I can work well with them.

As for choosing who to cover, I'm not overly scientific about it. I do have a few specific guidelines I adhere to, but the rest is fairly subjective. I look for artists who are great storytellers, have unique styles, and have made an impact on comics. I have a long list of artists I'd like to cover eventually, it's just a matter of timing as to when I can get to them.

TOS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Wieringo edition mark the first time one of the artist's collaborators has worked on a Modern Masters? How did you get Dezago in on the project?

ENW: Yes, it is. I'd been friends with Mike Wieringo for a couple of years and had been planning on doing a book on him at some point. I had met Todd at various Heroes Cons through Mike and Craig Rousseau, but I didn't really know him that well. One day I got an e-mail from him saying, "I don't know if you remember me, but...." He was a fan of the books (not to mention a very humble guy) and had noticed I'd been doing collaborations, so he asked if he could work with me on a Wieringo volume. I thought it might be interesting to have one of Mike's working partners and best friends conduct the interview. And besides, I figured that any friend of Mike and Craig had to be a great guy, which turned out to be a correct assumption. We'll be working together again in 2008.

TOS: What will you and Dezago be collaborating on in 2008?

ENW: It's another Modern Masters volume, but I can't say who until all the contracts are signed. It's not someone Todd's worked with before.

TOS: Will you be doing more of the DVDs in the long run? Does it take more or less time (production-wise) to do the DVD versus the time it takes to do the books?

ENW: Ideally, I'd like to do one or two Modern Masters in the Studio DVDs every year. I don't think we could realistically produce more than that for the time being. I spend less time personally on the DVDs than I do the books, but the entire production process takes much longer for the DVDs. Most of the work is handled by Jeremy and Shane McCracken-two brothers-and they do a great job with it. They know comics and are genuinely interested in the artists we film, which helps tremendously. And if you saw and enjoyed the George Pérez DVD, you're going to absolutely flip over the upcoming Michael Golden DVD.

TOS: In reading these, I always have a newfound appreciation for the artist's work. For example, I read Simonson's entire New Gods run when it was originally released, but now reading some of what he was attempting to do-I'll have to go back and re-read it. Do you ever hear back from the interview subjects that the coverage has prompted an increased interest/sales in their past work?

ENW: No, not really. I have had a few readers tell me they've sought out older work because of the books, so maybe they're having some impact in that regard.

TOS: In these days of blogs and message boards and online interviews, there are moments in this series that catch real candor that I don't know you might capture on the Internet. In particular, I was struck at how Waid/Wieringo losing the Fantastic Four impacted Mike far more than one would have thought if you had only followed Internet coverage of it (and almost led to him going to DC). Do you think folks appreciate the unique content that Modern Masters is often able to tap into?

ENW: I do. I mean, the books aren't for everyone, but the feedback I've gotten over the years has been overwhelmingly positive. The real advantage the Modern Masters books have to most online content is that the interviewer has time to really get to know the artist and has room to explore areas the artist doesn't usually have the chance to talk about. I really try to make the books as accessible as possible, and I don't think you need to be a fan of the particular artists in order to enjoy the books. That's the goal, at least.

TOS: In printing sketches and pages by the artist, what are some of the more challenging or unique efforts you've had to make to get some pieces included in the book? In compiling the books, can you point to recent favorite pieces you've gotten to publish?

ENW: Most of the art I use comes directly from the artist, but there are times when I have to hunt down artwork. A big thank you goes out to everyone who's sent me scans and photocopies from their collections, especially Terry Austin who's helped me out with several of the books.

Usually when trying to show an artist's pencils I'm having to work from photocopies, and more often than not the photocopies have a lot of extra "noise"-that is, a lot of ink that shouldn't be on the page. If a piece is especially bad, I'll often just let it go and run something else instead, but sometimes the piece is just too good a page to pass up. I've spent as much as 10 hours cleaning up one page of art to try to restore it to its original look, but I don't do that very often.

As for some recent favorites, from the Walt Simonson book there are the caricatures of Archie Goodwin, the Orion pencils, and the Frog Thor poster line art; from the Mike Wieringo book there are the unpublished She-Hulk/Thing pages, the Tellos model sketches, and the FF layouts; from the Kevin Maguire book I'd say the Batman punching out Guy Gardner pencils, the Captain America pin-up, and the unpublished "death of Batman" pages; and from the Charles Vess book I'll go with the Warriors Three art, the Spider-Man poster art, and the Prince Valiant try-out page. Of course, this is the very abbreviated list. I always end up having to leave out something really cool.

TOS: Are you pleased to see that the Modern Masters business model has clearly worked for TwoMorrows, given that they are now launching the Comics Introspective series?

ENW: Well, sure, mainly because it means I get to keep on doing the series full-time. I worked at a comic shop for five years back in the early '90s, so I know the difficulties retailers have when it comes to deciding what to order. That's why I wanted to do a series of books, rather than random books on whatever caught my interest. With a series, the retailers and their customers know what to expect with each volume and can place their orders with a greater measure of confidence. Of course, carrying the TwoMorrows banner is a great asset in and of itself.

I also want to make it clear that the Comics Introspective series will be very different from the Modern Masters series. And while it is aimed more at the Indy crowd, that's not to say there won't be some overlap in the artists we'll be covering. Just because the first 10 volumes of Modern Masters feature super-hero artists doesn't mean I haven't tried to get some of the Indy guys. I've been turned down by two of the best - who I won't mention by name - because they already had books in the works with other publishers. But there will be others that will show up in time, as well as guys that blur the line a bit, like Charles Vess. The Charles Vess volume just hit stores February 28th, and I think people may be surprised at just how much work Charles has done over the years. He shows up in so many different places and different mediums; he's an artist in the truest sense of the word.

TOS: You've got Michael Golden and Jerry Ordway on the horizon, which I'm sure is keeping your plate full, but is there anyone else in the pipeline that you're willing to discuss?

ENW: Volume 14, for October, will feature Frank Cho. He just finished the cover art last week, and it's a beaut - with a humorous twist, as you might expect from Frank.

And speaking of artists that blur the line between Indy and mainstream, early next year will see volumes on Mark Schultz and Mike Allred. You heard it here first!

TOS: You may not be willing to discuss this, understandably, but are there any artists that almost became subjects that changed their mind in the midst of the interview process?

ENW: No. I have had a couple of guys verbally commit and then back out before the contracts were signed, and, as I mentioned earlier, I've had artists turn me down, but that's the extent of it. No broken contracts and no hard feelings with anyone at all.

TOS: How hard is it to conduct interviews when you get to personal events in people's lives? For instance, in the Charles Vess book, you delve into his wife's accident in 1998 and the burden of medical costs.

ENW: Generally, I avoid talking about that kind of thing unless the artist has talked about it in public before or they bring it up in the interview themselves. In Charles' case, he brought up the issue himself, rather than the interviewer, Chris Irving. It was a critical moment in his career, so I'm glad he was comfortable talking about it and we were able to get it into the book.

TOS: Given that Vess is a painter, were there some pieces that you could not include, because of the scope and detail of a piece could not be conveyed in a standard sized book?

ENW: Not really, the only real limitation was the number of color pages I had to work with and thereby the number of finished paintings I could show. But I was able to show a lot of preliminary work and line drawings - which I love to do - so overall I'm very satisfied. And for Charles' benefit I'll mention that this summer Dark Horse will be releasing a big book of his illustration work - much in the same vein as their Art of Hellboy and Art of Usagi Yojimbo books. I think it and the Modern Masters volume will be very complementary to one another.

TOS: A great side benefit of some Modern Masters series is that you sometimes learn a great deal about an artist's collaborator, like I gained some insight about Neil Gaiman while reading the Vess book. Have you ever considered doing a split Modern Masters--one part artist focus, the other half devoted to a writer who frequently collaborated with that artist?

ENW: It's an interesting idea, but I barely have enough room to cover the artists as it is. I imagine I'll have more Interludes from time to time, like I did with Paul Neary and Mark Farmer in the Alan Davis volume and with John Workman in the Walter Simonson volume, but I'll probably leave those to just a few pages each.

TOS: Where do things stand with the Jim Aparo book and will it be part of the Modern Masters series?

ENW: Well, as you know, the book was originally scheduled for release in October 2005. When Jim passed away in July of 2005, Scott Beatty and I were just starting the interview process. With Jim's passing the nature of the book changed drastically. We had to rethink and retool what we were doing. This put us behind by a couple of months. Then, as I mentioned earlier, my wife went through her medical problems. At the same time, Scott was having to deal with equally (if not more so) difficult and time-consuming circumstances in his personal life. By the time we were able to start thinking about the book again, we each had other deadlines looming and the Aparo book unfortunately had to be put on the back burner.

The good news is that we're both working on it diligently now. We still have other deadlines we're having to work around, but we are making steady progress. And the book will not be solicited until it is done, so the next time you see it in Previews - even though, I'm not exactly sure when that will be just yet - you'll know the book will be out on schedule this time around.

The title of the book is The Brave and Bold Art of Jim Aparo, and it's not a part of the Modern Masters series. Jim was my favorite artist as a kid, and I want this book to really stand out. Scott and I are putting a lot of work into it, and I hope everyone will continue to be patient with us. We know that after nearly two years, expectations are going to be pretty high, and we're trying to exceed those expectations. That being said, if anyone reading this has any really nice pieces of Aparo original art, please let me know. I've got quite a bit already, but it's not too late to make room for more.

They can reach me through TwoMorrows (twomorrow@aol.com), and I now have a page on ComicSpace where I'll post announcements about the books. I'm also going to post short previews of the books, which I'll rotate through from time to time, so people who haven't seen them can get a feel for what they're like. I love getting feedback, so to everyone out there, let me hear what you have to say.