Comics Ahead of Their Time: An Interview with Dan Nadel
I recently had a chance to chat with Dan Nadel, author of the new book Art Out of Time: Unknown Comics Visionaries, 1900-1969. Besides writing this alternative comics history, Dan is also director of the publishing house PictureBox, which produces the annual anthology The Ganzfeld, among other titles. Art Out of Time represents a wake-up call to readers, displaying a wide array of unappreciated comic artists of the past and their creations. During our phone conversation, Dan and I touched on many of the topics discussed in the book, as well as Ohio State, hamburgers, and Tarzan.
ROBERT MURRAY: How did Art Out of Time originate?
DAN NADEL: Seeing all of these artists I was really interested in, that friends have told me about for years and things I’ve collected for many years, I noticed that all these artists I’m interested in have nothing on them in any of the comics history books. There’s no way to really learn about them. I felt that they were crucially important in comics history but haven’t really been talked about. The idea was to give these artists a home and try to broaden the idea of comics history by inserting them into the narrative.
RM: What aspect of the project attracted you most?
DN: The excavation of it. Two things: One, I love the idea of putting out this book with all of this amazing material, because nothing has existed like it since the Smithsonian Book of Comics, and I love that book, so I liked doing an alternate universe version of that book. Two, just the research was really attractive, learning about these cartoonists and trying to understand their lives.
RM: What kind of experience should readers expect from Art Out of Time?
DN: It’s a history book, but an anthology as well. Hopefully, at first it’s an interesting reading, and secondly I hope people are delightfully surprised by how much diversity there is in comics that’s never really been hinted at; the depth of all this stuff that’s out there, all these eccentrics and wonderful cartoonists. Hopefully, they’ll experience a kind of surprise and an eye-opening experience as well.
RM: How long did it take you to research this book?
DN: A couple of years.
RM: Any tales from the hunt that were funny or interesting?
DN: It’s pretty standard stuff, I have to say. Only two of them are alive, so I talked to Gene Deitch and Jack Mendelsohn. You know, it was a regular research project. There were nice surprises, like at Ohio State, at the cartoon research library there. That’s where I found The Wiggle Much, as well as the Norman Jennett work. I just tripped over that stuff, so that was a nice surprise, finding those in the backs of some other comics I was looking at. Otherwise, it was simply research, looking at old newspapers and old fanzines and finding what I could find.
RM: Do you have a personal favorite from the book?
DN: Milt Gross and Harry Tuthill are probably my two favorites.
RM: Any particular reason why?
DN: Milt Gross, because he is probably one of the funniest cartoonists who ever worked. I love his drawings, these wonderful high velocity cartoon drawings that are sort of bordering on falling apart but always really tight at the same time. He had this amazing career that ran across all this different media, and he was really an amazing character himself. And Tuthill because he is such a funny writer, such a uniquely American chronicler of urban life. His comics are uniquely cynical and a very cutting take on urban life.
RM: How difficult was the selection process?
DN: It was tough. The toughest part was I wish the book had been bigger, both larger in dimension as well as longer. I mean the toughest part in some ways was having to choose ten pages out of every hundred pages by somebody. That was really hard. But, the actual selection process of people wasn’t that bad. I felt that it was a good number. More than that, everything starts to blur together. Less than that, I would have been leaving people out. So the number worked itself out nicely, but it was really hard choosing the material for each artist.
RM: Were there any creators not featured in the book that you really wanted to add?
DN: Harry Lucey, who was a wonderful Archie artist in the 60s. I wish that he was in the book. Harry Lucey and Jessie Marsh. Jessie Marsh did Tarzan and John Carter of Mars. Those two, these sort of unrecognized mainstream guys. But, I felt like once you tip into the mainstream or licensed characters, it kind of opens up a whole other avenue that’s tricky to navigate conceptually. That may be another book.
RM: Do you have any other books in the works that will be similar to this?
DN: Cold Heat, the comic book, and Comics Comics, which is a magazine, are out now. I’m publishing a few books in the fall, and then I’m working on a Milt Gross biography and also a book about Rory Hayes.
RM: What will be the theme for the next installment of The Ganzfeld?
DN: The next issue will be out early next year and it will be called Japanada. It’s half Japanese, half Canadian. There will be a very long section by the Japanese manga artist King Terry, his first English work in twenty years. Also, a long section by an artist named Yokoyama as well as Tanaami, Marc Bell, Julie Doucet; It’ll be really good.
RM: Which of these unknown comics visionaries might have had the largest impact on comics of today?
DN: That’s the thing about these guys. I’m not sure they really had any influence. I think they’re interesting antecedents to what’s going on right now. But, I’m not sure they had any direct influence. The fact that they are ‘lost’ is proof of that. They may have had hidden influences, but nothing direct that I can really think of. Milt Gross, perhaps, is the largest figure in the book. He had an influence on Mark Newgarten and Art Spiegelman and people like that. Beyond that, I’m not sure. Maybe Milt Gross would be the figure from the book that looms the largest.
RM: Any creator from the book you believe to be the most talented?
DN: I couldn’t say. I wouldn’t want to choose. I love them all.
RM: Are there any plans to take this material and use it for a museum exhibition?
DN: Not right now. It would be nice, but museum exhibitions for this kind of material can be tricky because it’s ultimately just comic books and tear sheets, and I’m not sure what an exhibition like that would be.
RM: Do you think this book will be well received by the mainstream comic audience?
DN: I hope so. It’s sold very well so far. To me, anybody interested in comics should be interested in the book. The fact that the Smithsonian Book of Comic Books was an eye-opener for a ton of people in bringing this wonderful material to the general public. That’s what I’m hoping this can be. We’ve established the canon. We all know that Carl Barks is great, and we all know that George Herriman is great, and that Jack Kirby is the best ever. But, now it’s time to look at other people and say that Milt Gross and Harry Tuthill are great, too. If you love Jack Kirby or George Herriman, you’ll love this book because it’s more deeply personal creations by comic book and comic strip artists at the top of their game.
RM: Are there any mainstream titles you’re reading?
DN: Kirby and Ditko reprints mostly. I’ve been reading Gene Colan’s work on Daredevil. I tend to pick up whatever Steve Gerber’s writing. I’ve also been reading the Grant Morrison Superman comic. But, my favorite comic book is Love and Rockets. I buy everything the Hernandez brothers do. I pick up Y the Last Man sometimes, as well as whatever Ed Brubaker’s writing.
RM: Okay, word association time! What’s the first word that pops into your head regarding these comics from your book:
Ogden Whitney’s Herbie.
DN: Hamburgers.
RM: Dick Briefer’s Frankenstein.
DN: Hot Dogs.
RM: Fletcher Hanks’ Stardust.
DN: Pot.
RM: Rory Hayes’ Creatures in the Tunnel.
DN: Hippies.
RM: Boody Rogers’ Sparky Watts.
DN: Fun.
RM: Gene Deitch’s Terr’ble Thompson.
DN: Happy.
RM: Anything you’d like to add?
DN: I’d like to add that anyone who likes the book will also like the comic book I’m publishing called Cold Heat by Paper Rad and Frank Santoro. I’d recommend that everybody check out this monthly comic book. And check out my websites, PictureBoxInc.com and TheGanzfeld.com.
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