Tony Lee on Drunk Guys and Troopers
Comic book professional and Starship Troopers writer Tony Lee discusses his hopes for the future, his favourites from the past, and writing Starship Troopers; now historically the highest-selling British comic book by an independent publisher ever with 10,000 copies. Oh yeah, he also talks about Two Drunk Guys In A Bar and Doctor Who.
CRAIG JOHNSON: So, Bristol Expo has just finished: How was it for you? Anything you'd like to see done better or differently next year? Anyone you need to apologise to?
TONY LEE: [Laughs] Dan Boultwood's just suggested that the answer should be "have we got the entire attendance list?" Hmm. I suppose there are a couple of people I should apologise to. First off, I should apologise to the inhabitants of the Ramada Hotel for any disruptions that occurred around 6am on the Sunday morning when myself, Dan and some of the Norwegian contingent (most visibly Kristin of the purple hair) decided for some unknown reason that as it was daylight, to climb a tree. And the first one we found was outside the bar.
Also, I'd like to apologise to Matt Smith and 2000ad for the books the Megazine got when it beat Midnight Kiss but I swear it was nothing to do with us. Far from it, in fact, we rallied a rousing burst of 'Fair Play' and 'The best man won' from the back. Other apologies are to James Redington for turning up to his noon panel looking like the Joe Casey Twins, to Lee 'Budgie' Barnett for convincing his ten year old son to pitch to Bob Wayne, to anyone who was forced to wear an 'Official Tony Lee Minion' badge. Um. Anyone who had to listen to the 'Tony Lee' football chant throughout the Saturday evening and now can't get it out of their head. The list is so long
As for better or differently? I think the Eagle Awards need to have a serious think about next year and make sure the people presenting/receiving are nailed down earlier than twenty minutes before time. I was 'David Hine' at one point as they needed someone to pick up Axel Alonso's award. I'd also get the Ramada to have a look at the audio visual stuff, as several panels had tech problems.
But to be honest, I loved it. As usual. It's never going to be a San Diego con, but it's quintessentially British and a chance for creators to meet old friends. I made several new ones this year and I think this'll rate as one of the best cons I've had in many years.
CJ: Are you going to the San Diego or any US con this year, and if so how do you expect the experience to compare (to Bristol)?
TL: I'm definitely going to San Diego this year I went last year and I loved every second of it. It's a very different experience to Bristol, everyone's a lot more close knit in America because there's a con every month, so many people go from con to con and the San Diego con is their party time. It's also one of the few places you can walk into a bar and see around you Quesada, Didio, Larsen and Stephenson the networking prospects are incredible. I've also got a lot of friends on the 'lower tier' of comics with me, people like Kody Chamberlain, Ryan Stegman, Neil Kleid, loads of the Digital Webbing crew people who I only see once a year and when I do, we make up for it. I've also got commitments to be on at least three booths and possibly one panel so far!
As well as that, San Diego is more of a Holiday for me my real work is the following week in New York I'm doing the con, flying back to the East coast and I've got about four days of comic, novel and screen meetings over there as well as a signing on the Thursday night at Midtown Comics with Kleid and Oeming. I'll be taking in a Mets game there too.
But the alcohol levels are always the same.
CJ: Midnight Kiss was nominated for the Best British Colour Comic Eagle losing out to the Judge Dredd Megazine, which in its 2005 iteration is neither full colour nor a comic. That said, when did you stop reading 2000AD and why?
TL: Ah. The Megazine beating us. Yeah, it's a sore point. Not as sore as it is to some people, but possibly next year how about looking at small press and actually accepting that 'small' means SMALL. The people who could be bothered to vote for the Meg was still more than our entire sales numbers for Midnight Kiss. How are we supposed to beat that? We can't. It will always win.
We knew we wouldn't win. That's why we arrived at the awards ready to party the stress of winning was taken off our shoulders by stark reality. That said, I'm happy for any of them to win I love the Brodie's Law guys, and I still buy the Megazine and 2000ad weekly. I stopped for a few years around 1999, but the last couple I've kept up to date, mainly as many people I know write / draw for them and it's good to see what they're up to.
We like to think that we were the people's choice, however that is, the people who didn't vote for our rivals. [Laughs]
CJ: The fans at 2000adonline are notoriously activist in voting for "their" books, does that not immediately give everyone else a handicap?
TL: Yes. But you gotta love loyalty like that. We did the same with our fans they just had more. Fair play the best man won.
CJ: What do you consider to be your single best piece of writing comics or otherwise?
TL: Ooh. Hmm, that's a tough one, mainly as my style's changed from book to book. There are parts of stories that I love, and others I hate. I just re-edited the end of book three of Starship Troopers and I have to say, I actually cried. But I think that's mainly because the characters in it were very close to my heart the entire time I wrote it and the ending scenes are very 'Empty Chairs at Empty Tables' that kind of 'montage of the dead' you get.
But the best thing I've written at the moment? No idea. The one thing I'm most proud of however is
Of Vengeance, a five part miniseries I'm doing with Rantz Hoseley and Mike May. It's in with a publisher at the moment awaiting a greenlight and if it's a yes, I'll be the happiest man in the land because I love this one. I've had people read the script and just stare at me as if I'm utterly insane. There are moments in this story that are just golden. And you'll never be able to listen to The King And I in the same way ever again.
CJ: Are you allowed to tell us anything more about
Of Vengeance?
TL: Oh, totally.
Of Vengeance is a revenge movie of a comic. Two decades back, Helen Gane, a waitress in a sleepy Nebraskan town was raped and killed. The three witnesses to their friends act helped him bury the body. She was believed to have simply left the town. Over the two decades, each of them rose to the top of his profession, within the boundaries of the town one becomes the Mayor, one the Editor of the local paper, one the Sheriff and the killer, Pete McClusky, runs the steel mill.
But then, twenty years later Helen returns. Looking no older than she did the day she died. And she wants justice. And some debts can only be repaid in blood.
So she returns to take her revenge, one by one. But as she does this, Michael, another like her arrives with powers like her own, trying to stop her. But as he looks into the cause of her death, he discovers a far greater conspiracy that reaches up to Heaven itself one that proves the existence of the Bloodline of Christ. A Bloodline that was connected to the dark, voodoo ritual that killed her in the first place - And we're not talking the sodding Da Vinci Code.
So does he stop her? Assist her? Whose will are they really performing? And when she does kill them all what will happen to her soul, currently freefalling
As you can see, Rantz has done an amazing job of capturing the true 'otherworldness' of Helen and Mike, as shown in their meeting at the town's diner. His muted pallet really works there's only one full colour scene in the entire story. And yes, there is a definitive ending. No, it's not a cop out one either.
CJ: Starship Troopers. It's finally made it out, now as a regular comic from Markosia. What gives?
TL: Well, Mongoose released the first one, but I believe didn't make enough from it to support others it was marketed to retailers very badly, aimed at games stores rather than comic shops. APC spoke to them about another project about a year back and it came up the next thing I know it's suddenly coming out as a 12-parter, now as three 4-parters. I'm not involved much with them to be honest apart from some editing Sam Hart's done some new pages to fit the revised cliffhanger layout, and Kieran Oats has made a stunning job of colouring the greyscale.
Actually I saw Neil Edwards's art for book two and I have to say that it's some of the best stuff I've seen. Sam and Neil make me look like a good writer. Well, an adequate one.
But I have no say in what goes on with it, I wrote all three books and was paid by Mongoose for them over a year back. I'm just happy my story finally comes out.
And of course, the fact that #1 sold over ten thousand copies keeps me warm and fuzzy at night.
CJ: Ten thousand copies of Starship Troopers must make it Markosia's best-selling book - an impressive number for a fledging company - how do you think they can parlay that into success on their other books?
TL: Well if I'm correct, the 10,000 copies of Starship Troopers #1 made it the most Direct-Market sold copies by a UK independent publisher ever, or something like that. ask Markosia, they said it to me.
Starship Troopers has some differences to the others however - it's a name people remember and love. There are massive arguments on the net on whether you're a book, TV series or Film fan. One US store ordered something like two hundred copies. I was always going to do well.
With the other comics, who knows? I've always said that comics live or die on the quality. Midnight Kiss died, but that was because I think only a couple of the four issues came out on time and there were two-monthly breaks in between - but if the other Markosia titles are good enough and come out on time, there's no reason why they shouldn't do well. If the company puts in the marketing, the PR, then they'll do fine.
CJ: Dan Boultwood. How, why, where, what and quite possibly who?
TL: Hahaha I ask myself that every day.
Dan Boultwood, or 'Danny B' as he's now asking to be called following the Bristol Con is one of my closest friends. He's also the other half of 'Two Drunk Guys In A Bar' productions, who we created while doing The Gloom.
He's the coolest guy in the world. Every convention should have a Dan Boultwood. He makes them fun. And to be honest, I've had the best times at Bristol over the last few years when he's been about none more so than the entirety of Saturday night when we wore Top Hats and performed with drunken whimsy.
He has to be seriously one of the most underrated artists in the business. He did a load of things for APC and Com.X, most notably Monster Club, Comicana and The Gloom with myself. He's about to become Art Director on a movie he created, which will make him infinitely more famous and rich than I, and in the meantime we're working on four projects the finished trade of The Gloom, hopefully out in late 2006, Bjorn of the Dead our 'who would win a fight between Zombies, Ninjas and Vikings' comic, The Crimson Todger which does for Biggles what we did to pretty much every pulp hero in The Gloom - but the biggest news is that we're working with G.P. Shadowmancer Taylor on a graphic novel called Tizzle Sisters that will mix the childrens book with 80 pages of specially adapted sequential art, adapted by me and drawn by Dan. And that's going to be out by October!
I'll work with this guy forever. He'll climb trees at 6am with me, happily sellotape an eagle award to my head, and the stuff we write together makes me smile all the time. And according to Bevis Musson, he stole the 'Gayest Straight Man In Comics' award this year.
CJ: Is Dan B maybe the Curse Of British Comics in human form he joined Com.X, they went down; he moved to APC, they went down; he's now with Markosia
?
TL: I don't think so. Dan is unfortunately suffering from the fact that his style isn't the standardized 'spandex' and therefore he finds it hard to find projects that suit his style. Which means he ends up with smaller publishers. That said, I know for a fact that in recent months his work's been looked at by some high-level publishers, so let's just hope!
CJ: What is your favourite cheese?
TL: Edam.
CJ: If Marvel or DC offered you the pick of any of their books, which would you choose and what would you do with it?
TL: Aw man! That's like the hardest bloody question about! Any character? Even if they're being used? Okay. For Marvel I really really wanted to do a Banshee book, pitched Mike Marts like crazy. And then at last years San Diego he had to take me aside, sit me down and inform me that Banshee was dying later in the year almost like I'd lost my pet dog. But other than that, in Marvel, Nick Fury. I'd love to do a proper Nick Fury/SHIELD mini. Throw in the best elements of things like Queen and Country and The Man from UNCLE, mix modern with 60's explodo.
I'd also kill to do the six parter SAGE story I threw Teresa years back, that followed on from my 11 pager in X-Men Unlimited #1. Actually at the con this weekend, I was discussing how I'd love to do a Kitty Pryde/Sage miniseries, team the two together, throw them into some god-awful situation and just watch them get out. so who knows, perhaps that'll be in my next begging letter. I have Axel's Eagle award perhaps I'll send him ransom pictures.
As for DC? I'd kill to do Nightwing. I love Dick Grayson in a seriously platonic fanboy way. As for what I'd do with him? Probably what's happening at the moment but I'd stop him being a model. Hmm. Perhaps I might push for a Jason Todd mini. I'm enjoying him at the moment. Other than that there are a few people here and there, with Manhunter now cancelled, there's always a chance to bring back the Mark Shaw Manhunter one of my favourite characters ever. But the one I REALLY want? Seriously? Wild Dog. Funnily enough, I chatted to Geoff Johns on the weekend about Wild Dog we're both massive fans of the 80's series and have mentioned him to each other several times over the last few years. I reckon he's still alive out there.
CJ: How did you get the gig for 
TL: I first spoke to Clayton (Hickman, editor of Doctor Who Magazine) several years back, before the new series even came out about writing some scripts, but at the time they were fully booked. But the spec script I sent ended up being shown to Marvel and got me the meeting in New York, so Clay's technically the reason I write comics now.
Anyway, fast forwards a few years to last year's Brighton Convention Jim Alexander introduces me in the bar to Clayton, who I'd never met face to face, and we speak a couple of times over the weekend he remembers my script and is rather amused that my Marvel work is due to him.
Jump forwards to February I'm doing one of my monthly catch ups and I have a sudden break in my schedule thanks to finally finishing Shadowmancer (I was writing two issues a month to build their backlog, and suddenly wasn't) and had some space, so I called Clayton up to see if I could pitch again. He remembered me from Brighton, we threw around some ideas, and the next thing I know we've got one that works well, is a three-parter and I'm working out a page by page synopsis of it
As for restrictions, there are quite a lot, as it has to be approved by Russell T Davis (the show's producer) himself. The Doctor has to sound right. We can't use creatures from the show we can't use supporting cast unless there's a real good reason for them it's purely The Doctor and rose. I actually learned a hell of a lot about the craft of writing in the time it took me to go from start to first accepted script. Clayton was and is one of the most understanding Editors out there he guides you along without needing to push you, and I found myself feeling like I'd let him down when something wasn't right. That's the way to edit! Make the buggers feel guilty! [Laughs]
CJ: What's your favourite word?
TL: Serendipity. I seem to be having a lot of it at the moment. There's another one, my girlfriend's name but I won't be naming that. [laughs]
CJ: What is your favourite writers' quote and why?
TL: It has to be the classic deadline one by the late, great Douglas Adams 'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.'
CJ: What inspires you to write and why?
TL: You know I don't actually know. I used to think it would be the money, the being famous bit but then I've turned down gigs that paid very well and would have made me better known, but would have sold my capitalist soul. And I've taken gigs that have actually lost me money, but where I liked the people, the story and the publisher.
I think what inspires me is seeing people's reactions when they read my work. I had a letter from the mother of an autistic child who had read one of my comics, and I was stunned by how touched I was by a few words on an email.
I have stories in my head. Lots of stories. Some may be good. Others bad. But until I write them out, they'll always be nothing just ideas in my head. Once I write them, then they can be read. I like to know what people think. And to do that I must write.
CJ: Feedback via email is just so easy now, but do people actually write, you know, real letters too?
TL: I think it's far easier these days to drop an email, post a comment on a blog that many publishers don't get written mail any more. Which is nice, as you can get more instant comments, but bad as it means that any old reply can be sent - when I was a kid, if you sent a letter you thought hard about what to write. These days you can fling up the first thing that comes to mind, and sometimes that can cause you more problems than you expected!
I've only ever had one real letter ever through comics. But I don't mind, because I've had some of the most amazing compliments via email!
CJ: What do you think makes a comics writer successful?
TL: Recognition that comics to many out there aren't the greatest cultural icon in the world. And if he/she doesn't, to be able to prove me wrong.
They must be able to make the reader fall into the story rather than sit there still at the hand to eye distance. To make the reader turn the page. To make them wonder what's happening and more than anything make them buy the comic again next week.
A comic comes out monthly. That's twelve a year. Say a comic has been going for ten years. That's over a hundred issues. Say that character is in four books. That's now four hundred stories. And in the scheme of things, that's a new character a decade? Pah, we have storylines that last longer. Think of someone like Superman! That's thousands of stories with him in
A good writer will come in and write something that might not be new, might not be different but will make you want to read this old character with his old stories again.
And on a business level a work-for-hire writer becomes successful by hitting deadlines, putting work in on time, being professional, changing things when needed at the end of the day it's a business. You want to piss about? Do creator owned.
CJ: What are your goals as a comics writer?
TL: When I started, my mother was still alive and I would go and see her and read her my stories. She was my greatest fan and at the same time my greatest critic. When she passed away with cancer a couple of years ago, I found it difficult. My goals changed. I was doing it because I enjoyed it, but I had always wanted to be successful so my mother could be proud of me.
I'm still doing it so my mother is proud. I know she watches over me and is happy for me in all I do.
My current goals? I'd like to get on a series for Marvel or DC. I'd like to do mini series for Vertigo and IDW, I'd like to put something out under Image. I'd like, in a few years to move aside from comics and work in Movies and TV again. But I don't think I'll ever leave comics now it's in the blood.
As long as I'm happy, Craig that's all I care about.
CJ: What is the best tip you can give to aspiring comics writers?
TL: Network. You might be the best thing ever, but it don't mean shit if you piss the editor off before he/she looks at it. Always be professional. Always ask if you may speak to an editor later rather than at that point if they're not busy they'll look there and then if they are, say for example they're having a pint at the bar when you've walked up - they'll appreciate the fact you asked. Remember, an editor is more likely to look at a pitch if they recognize your name, remember your face, and more importantly like you. Get some finished pages. Team with an artist. It doesn't matter how bad they are it'll at least show your writing ability. Read comic scripts and see how they're constructed.
But never let it get you down. If you're finding it is, then take a break for a day, week, month, year you need to be able to take a lot of hits, and if you can't then find a different creative outlet. It's not easy. Really.
CJ: Which comic do you wish you'd written?
TL: Sandman. It came at a time when the DC/Vertigo line was still smudged. And Hob Gadling is another of my favourite characters. I used to always say I wanted to write Doctor Who but now I am, and it's a dream come true. Otherwise, it'd be something seminal, like Halo Jones, or Marvels. I'll say however I'm glad I didn't write something like Watchmen as I'd hate to always have to look at that and know that's my bench mark.
But I'd like to have written several things but it's more what I will write that excites me.
CJ: What current comics are your favourites at the moment?
TL: Oh man I'm totally the comics fanboy. At the moment I'm loving the DC stuff the entirety of Infinite Crisis was a talking point in our house for weeks. I had my total fix of spandex books from that alone.
Otherwise, I'm enjoying Brubaker's Daredevil like a small child at Christmas. Paul Jenkins Revelations was a smash surprise. Fables. Hellblazer although I'm a little lost on the latter at the moment. Fell. JSA. Rex Mundi. Lions, Tigers and Bears. The list just goes on.
I also get previews of stuff, and I'm really looking forwards to Phonogram by Gillen and McKelvie and also Antony Johnston's Wasteland. And Tag by Giffen and Kody Chamberlain although I have to say I have more love for Punks by Chamberlain and Fialkov
CJ: What next for Tony Lee?
TL: After these last few weeks? Sleep. I'm no longer writing the 'fun british project' with Chris Stone for BOOM! as he left the project and there's a new editor and writer in place, but I've got a couple of things bouncing around with the big two that I really hope come off because they'd be such fun to write - and I'm currently sorting out a pitch/synopsis for hopefully what will become my next Doctor Who story for early next year. I've also got a couple of novels to finish, issue #5 of The Gloom and some back material for the Midnight Kiss trade. I'm also plotting a Starship Troopers special, and finally I'm finishing off a revised treatment for the movie script 'The Re-Locator' that I'm writing with Josh Spector.
CJ: What are "Two Drunks Guys In A Bar" planning next?
TL: Well, we're finishing The Gloom. We're then going to be working with G.P. Taylor on his new book Tizzle Sisters which will mix comics with prose. I'll be scripting the comic parts and Dan'll be drawing them. That's for Markosia and that's all I can say on the matter for the moment.
As well as that we have Bjorn Of The Dead, The Crimson Todger and our new column, Two Drunk Guys In a Bar, from you guys here at SBC!
Dan's drawing a picture of us as we speak. His mum's very proud of him.
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