Howard Chaykin: Facing Challengers

By Tim O'Shea

Howard Chaykin is a creator that warrants any amount of acclaim he’s received over the years. He’s one creator that’s always made the medium of utmost interest to me. I’ve interviewed creators since 1999 and Chaykin has always been on my short list. So when DC’s Adam Philips suggested I interview Chaykin regarding Mighty Love and his upcoming relaunch of Challengers of the Unknown, I leapt at the chance. And Chaykin was incredibly cooperative and engaging in the interview, as one might hope and expect, considering his vast body of work. So, I sincerely owe both Chaykin and DC a sincere apology for the delay in running this interview. This interview was actually completed in late March, but unfortunately this has been the first opportunity for me to run the interview due to logistical challenges on my end totally, I’ll concede. While perfect timing for the Challengers relaunch, I regret this was not released more closely to the release of Mighty Love, a solid tale that I heartily recommend. Given that the first issue of the Challengers of the Unknown six-part miniseries goes on sale this Wednesday, we’ll lead with that aspect of the discussion.

Tim O’Shea: What is the attraction to the original Challengers concept that inspired you to derive from it and take the concept into your own direction? Do you fear by using the same name, much of the initial criticism/reaction will be improperly focused comparisons between your take and previous Challs incarnations?

Howard Chaykin: As banal as it may sound, the title is the primary appeal. I read the book when I was a kid--and liked it--but I felt that the agenda-less, "Hey, let's go find some adventure and challenge some unknown wasn't a concept that aged well into this century--and the powers that be at DC seemed to agree, since everyone seems pretty high on my reconception.

Since I don't take praise from the audience all that seriously-I'm flattered, but not terribly--I've had to learn to feel the same way about criticism--so whatever comparisons are drawn aren't really of much consequence to me.

I certainly hope the audience likes the book on its own merits.

O’Shea: Along those lines, is DC setting your new incarnation up for such comparisons by releasing the second Challengers volume of the DC Archives a week before your first issue goes on sale?

Chaykin: This is the first I'm hearing about the DC Archives stuff--and I have to say it's very likely a coincidence.

O’Shea: How much of your approach toward the book is influenced by the current political landscape (be it in the U.S. or internationally)?

Chaykin: I'm enormously influenced by the current political landscape--as I have been for most of my career. The underlying theme of the new Challengers is simply that we don't really know who's really running things--and nothing is quite as it seems.

O’Shea: Unless I misread the preview pages at DC's website, at least one of the Challengers is African-American. How does the racial diversity of the cast influence (if at all) the tone of the series?

Chaykin: We live in an increasingly pan ethnic and multiracial world. I personally have lived through decades in which anyone who wasn't a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Male--or at the very least, a Catholic who could play one on television--had no chance of transcending the glass ceiling of society, business or politics--

--To an era when the President's National Security Advisor is a black woman who achieved her position through affirmative action--and yet feels perfectly comfortable denying that same affirmative action to others.

But don't get me started on irony--it could be a long day.

O’Shea: Given that it's only a six-issue miniseries, were there subplots or character developments that ended up being edited out of the series?

Chaykin: When we started the project, the intention was to start with a six issue miniseries, test the response, and conceivably go on from there. With luck the material will find an audience and go on to a monthly, or something like it.

O’Shea: Quite often it appears that you try to construct work that appeals to consumers on two levels: sheer storytelling adventure on one level, and an underlying metaphorical message--be it about society as a whole or certain aspects. Are you disappointed when readers only get the adventure and miss out on the metaphors, or vice versa?

Chaykin: It seems to me expectations are disappointments in training--therefore I try to keep my expectations of how the material is received to a minimum.

O’Shea: How important was it to you to write and draw Challengers yourself? In recent years you've collaborated with others on various aspects of the creative process/projects...what made you take on the full creative load on this one?

Chaykin: I'm convinced, for better or worse, that in most cases, I'm the best guy to draw what I write—with some exceptions. I had no desire to dump the insane amount of work this book calls for on anybody else's shoulders but my own.

Exploring Mighty Love

O’Shea: Would you agree that while on, one level Mighty Love is a dysfunctional love story, at the same time it's a superhero satire or commentary on your view of the superhero genre? Why I ask is, in this book, the heroes come across as far more interesting outside of their costumes it seems.

Chaykin: I'm a guy who's always been more interested in finding the motivation for the sort of characters we do in comics--whatever it may be that gets them to go out, masked and costumed--and do whatever it is they do. That might be why Pope and Rheinhardt seem more interesting than Skylark and Iron Angel--but for me, they're of a piece.

And no, I don't feel the book is any kind of particular commentary on superheroes. It's just another take on familiar material, I suppose.

O’Shea: Your art has always been sexually charged. Looking at the art in this story, I must say I think few artists, other than of course yourself, could pull off a scene where the two leads (Delaney and Lincoln) are having a phone conversation, and Delaney is shown in profile with erect nipples. I fear if any lesser-established artist than yourself tried to pull a scene off like that, many a reviewer would mock them. First off, do you think your established reputation allows you to introduce sexuality into scenes and scenarios that an editor would not let most creators try? Secondly, what is it about sexuality (except for the obvious primal appeal) that has caused you to explore it in many of your works over the years?

Chaykin: Since Mighty Love is about romance and sexual attraction, I felt the imagery and attitudes expressed by the characters is appropriate.

I can't speak for what my reputation does for me in terms of editorial acceptance of whatever quirky ideas and visuals I deliver--I just do the job and hope it meets with approval.

I might also point out that I frequently approach sex and sexual themes from a comic perspective--because I do find the whole thing all too often to be ruefully funny. Let's face it--I'm a guy who's been through the mill romantically--and sexually--over the years--and much of my experience gets filtered into the work.

O’Shea: In terms of dialogue, I'll admit that the bit where Constance refers to Wilda as a "c***" (slang word for the female pudenda) really bothered me. Granted you had a female calling another female that, but did you intentionally choose that word to get readers' attention...or to give another negative element to the Constance character?

Chaykin: I completely understand your reaction to the word--my wife shares your discomfort. That said, I still believe there are no holds barred in terms of what characters can say or do. I didn't choose the word to get an outraged reaction from the reader--let's not assume that every reader would have the same negative reaction to the word--anymore than the average guy has the same horror I feel when I hear George W. Bush say anything.

Rather, the word seemed the perfectly appropriate choice for Constance--who is, in no uncertain terms, a regular c*** herself.

O’Shea: Maybe it's because I just finished watching a George Cukor documentary, or am I correct in sensing a slight Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepburn influence in the Delaney and Lincoln dynamics?

Chaykin: Actually, my model for the relationship is more William Powell and Myrna Loy--and just about every seemingly disastrous couple in the movies--men and women who were made for each other--from Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell in The Front Page, to Frederick March and Carole Lombard in Nothing Sacred (possibly the greatest screwball comedy ever) to Ray Milland and Carole Lombard in The Princess Comes Across, to William Powell and Carole Lombard in My Man Godfrey.

I see a pattern developing here...

The answer really boils down to the fact that almost everything I ever needed to know about romantic relationships I learned from Warner Bros, MGM, Columbia and RKO when I was a little kid staying up too late for my own good to watch old black and white movies.

O’Shea: Some storytellers like yourself seem to be able to add nuances to their characters with little moments. One such scene for Delaney Pope was when she ascertained the ex-Mrs. Steinmetz was not living alone...because her toilet seat was not down. How long had you had that scene bit rolling around in your head, waiting for a chance to use it? Do you like to seed your storytelling with other little moments like that--scenes that seem like throwaway moments that are in fact tools for character development?

Chaykin: I can't say how long that idea been burbling in the background, but I do have a constantly updated file of notes that cover that sort of thing--quirks of humanity that define character that I compile to keep that sort of thing alive in my material. Thanks for noticing--it's one of my favorite bits in the book.

O’Shea: In the book there's an organization called "Yes!"--is that story element an effort to comment on any particular real-life group or movement?

Chaykin: Not really. Although I'm a part of a self help group myself, I still have a pretty jaundiced skeptical view of any one or any organization--be it religious, spiritual, political, or whatever--that thinks it's got the answers.

O’Shea: If response were strong enough, would you consider another story with Delaney and Lincoln, or have you told the extent of their full story (or as much as you're interested in telling) with Mighty Love?

Chaykin: I'd love to do a sequel--there's plenty of story to develop between these two.

O’Shea: What made you want to pitch this project to DC, rather than anyone else, given that none of the characters are set in the DC universe per se?

Chaykin: DC simply seemed like the right place to go--and I've always wanted to do a big project with Joey Cavalieri.

O’Shea: Typically your stories are for mature readers, what freedoms do you gain that you can't enjoy when writing a story for a (lack of a better term) "all ages" audience?

Chaykin: What comes out is more a reflection of my thought processes, minus the social governor polite society demands.

O’Shea: The dedication of the book is "To Laurel...who thought of it first" would you care to give some background on this?

Chaykin: Laurel is my wife--who first inspired me to do the book when I was telling her about my first experiences in comics, doing romance stuff. She asked why there weren't any romance comics anymore, and Mighty Love was the end result of the long-winded answer that followed.