Dan Jurgens: God and Country
During his five year run on THOR Dan Jurgens has written some of the most memorable stories in the character’s history. In 1998 Wizard magazine proclaimed Thor the best hero in comics, describing his battles as “titanically exciting”. Over the next two years Jurgens pitted Thor against insanely powerful opponents like the Dark Gods, the Juggernaut, Thanos and the savage Mangog, who nearly beat the Thunder God to death and left him hanging on a slab of ice in issue #24. In THOR #25 the Odinson exacted his revenge by shoving his hammer down Mangog's throat and roasting his internal organs. Mangog’s carcass was last seen hurled off a cliff. 
Furious, unrelenting battles like the fight with Mangog earned THOR a reputation as one of the most kinetic comic books on the stands. But Jurgens wasn’t just interested in writing bare-knuckled combat. He soon set out to tell an epic story that would challenge readers with questions about religion, politics and the pursuit of power.
In 2002-2003 THOR readers have watched the All-Father Odin die and Thor wrestle with the responsibility of inherited power in Asgard, and eventually on Earth. Gone are the monstrous throw-downs of the past; in their place stand intelligent discussions on how one being can make the world a better place and the repercussions that come with such a monumental task.
I talked to writer Dan Jurgens about the ambitious scope of Thor, how his stories parallel events in our world and why Thor's trickster-brother Loki suddenly has a collection of Dr. Strange trinkets.
Markisan Naso: In your own words, can you give people who haven’t read the book a brief recap of what has been going on in THOR?
Dan Jurgens: Briefly, Thor used to lead two lives, one as the God of Thunder and the other as human Jake Olson. Each life complicated the other’s so Odin separated them into two distinct people, with the unintended consequence of removing Thor’s more human self... or soul... in the process. Odin died and Thor assumed Asgard's throne. He then became more involved with earth's affairs until he actually moved Asgard to a point where it hovered above NYC.
Several nations objected to this and formed a secret cabal that tried to destroy Asgard, bringing it down upon the city, essentially destroying both.
We have since jumped to a point years from now in which Thor has taken control of Earth and is now lord and monarch of the entire planet. National borders and religions have been erased and the story has become one of a small band of revolutionaries who wish to kill Thor even while he tries to build a better future for mankind.
MN: Over the last two years you’ve really taken THOR in an entirely new and ambitious direction. What inspired you to write such an epic story? Is this a tale you’ve wanted to tell since you started writing THOR or did it simply evolve during your run?
DJ: This is a story that evolved.
When I started writing THOR, the character hadn't had a monthly series for a while, so we set out to do classic THOR stories that reintroduced the character.
One of the challenges of doing comics today though, is to take the character through evolutionary stages that keep readers intrigued. This general concept started as a stand alone project that Tom and I discussed and eventually decided to fold into the monthly series.Once we decided to kill Odin, everything else fell into place. It's always cheesy to say a story writes itself, but when we decided on this general direction, that's sort of what happened.
MN: Did the editorial staff at Marvel have any reservations about what you wanted to do with THOR?
DJ: If anyone said anything negative, it was never passed on to me.
As I said, Tom Brevoort and I sculpted this direction together. We never made a declarative statement that we'd be doing this for three years. Instead, it became a layered story that had to unfold with proper pacing and we've worked hard to maintain that.
MN: The events in THOR really seem to exist outside the normal Marvel Universe, especially now that the book is set far ahead in the future. There was a crossover with Iron Man a while back, but outside of that no other Marvel comic books seem to be affected by your storylines. How does this apparent freedom from regular continuity affect the way you approach your stories?
DJ: Well, the freedom makes it easier to accomplish.
However, I wish we could have had some of this reflected in other Marvel books as it would lead credence to the entire storyline. One of the things I loved about Marvel as a kid was the feeling of connectivity among all the books and characters and that no longer exists, which is something of a shame.
It's weird, because DC, which used to be totally unable to accomplish such a thing, is now far better at it than is Marvel.
MN: You’ve spent a lot of time depicting a wide range of human reactions to Thor’s presence on Earth, exploring whether or not it’s right for an all-powerful entity to fix all the world’s problems. In the book this is a very difficult question for many characters to answer. You can really feel how people are torn. Why is a right solution so elusive in this situation? How do you think people in “real life” would react if Asgard suddenly appeared over NYC?
DJ: From the day I started writing THOR, I've always been struck by the notion of how people would react if a flying being suddenly appeared and proclaimed himself a god.
If that being then tried to impose his will, all the while saying... and believing... that it was in mankind's best interests, how would people react? So far, Thor has eradicated most disease and hunger, as well as most weapons and armies. He's given Earth alternative energy sources that no longer mandates the desecration of Mother Earth.
So is Earth better off or not? Because the downfall to all of this is that while many problems have been solved, new ones have been created. Man has become less an independent, creative being and more a pet.
So is the tradeoff fair? These are the issues we explore and we try to cover the full spectrum of emotion and reactions in the process.
MN: At times it seems like Thor’s choices often mirror those of the United States government, albeit on a much greater scale. How do you think the events in THOR relate to the state of the world today? Have you researched opinions on current U.S. policy when writing THOR?
DJ: Yes.
The United States government is in the midst of a military action in another nation while making it clear it's for someone's own good. At the end of the day, Thor's statements really aren't so different.We initiated our stories before all that, however...and it's been weird to see it all dovetail as it has.
But the excuses for national aggression tend to be the same over the centuries anyway.
MN: I often find myself thinking about the issues in THOR and how they parallel those of the real world after I’ve read an issue. Is it important that your story stimulate this kind of response in your readers? What would you like them to take away from each issue?
DJ: My basic goal as a writer is pretty damn simple. When the reader finishes the book, I want him or her to want to buy the next issue. I don't mean that in the commercial sense but the editorial sense.
If they saw an idea, thought or visual in the book that got their brain cells dancing a bit... one that intrigued them enough to want to read more of the story the following month and beyond, then I accomplished what I set out to. The real trick is to add to that group every month, and that's the toughest obstacle a writer faces.
But when all of this is said and done, I want them to think the trip was worth their time and money. I've always thought that the goal of a writer should be that, once their time on a book ends, it should be in better shape than when they started.
MN: Along with ruminations on political power, you’ve really added some interesting religious explorations in THOR. Characters all over the Marvel U have erected churches in Thor’s name and many have abandoned their old religions. A priest regularly talked to Thor about his “attempt” to replace the Christian God. A lobsterman gave up Catholicism after Thor saved his livelihood. In my opinion these are some of the most powerful scenes in the book. But quite frankly, there isn’t a lot of religious discussion happening in comic books today. Were you at all concerned about possibly offending or alienating readers with the subject matter? Why did you choose to address Thor’s effect on religion in such detail?
DJ: I'm rather surprised we haven't gotten more reaction from this, not in the negative sense, but more from the fact that, as you say, it's an idea that isn't explored much.
Many religious leaders representing a number of religions seem to feel that mankind is currently suffering a crisis of faith.
It seems likely that if someone arrived in a world filled with greed, disappointment and deprivation of the basics needed to simply live, which earth most certainly is, he might well be exalted if he proclaimed himself a god and began to slowly make things more equitable.
Such a thing would throw the status quo of the world's religions into turmoil, and this is what we've explored. Nowhere have we said that any particular religion is good or bad. We've only said that given these conditions, things would change in a hurry. So, yes, the First Church of Asgard and its followers, Thorists, would begin to change the world in dramatic ways.
And it's also true that Thursday is named after THOR... Thor's day... so it would replace Sunday as the Sabbath for some.
MN: Many characters in the book believe THOR is a bad guy who is forcing humanity to be dependent on him. People are willing to give up their lives to stop him. And yet THOR believes his actions are justified. For many onlookers in the Marvel U. THOR has become a villain. How do you view the character and what he feels he’s trying to accomplish?
DJ: THOR is not a bad guy.
THOR is a good guy trying to accomplish the right thing.
But doing so may well be impossible. Either that, or it will create problematic side effects he could not have foreseen.
That's my take.
MN: Books like DC's THE AUTHORITY have explored similar notions of super-powered heroes reshaping the world the way they think it should be, i.e. making it better. But it’s rare that an established, mainstream superhero title like THOR has gone down this road. How is your THOR different from other comic stories that have entertained the idea of creating Utopia through force.
DJ: I believe the religious aspect of all of this has made THOR far different from what we've seen elsewhere.
When all of this began, Thor repeatedly stated that he was not an authority on anything. Rather, he was offering help and alternatives. He never asked for a religious following to spring up around him... it simply happened on its own. He never asked to be worshipped.
THOR is less a study of a main character and more a study of people's reactions to the concept of the character.
MN: How have THOR fans reacted to the changes in the book?
DJ: Some love it, a few may hate it.
If you want to read THOR in order to see him whack the Absorbing Man over the head, this is not the book to read. We're doing something different right now. Something a little more thought provoking and a lot more challenging.
MN: In the new storyline, “The Reigning” (begun in issue #68), Thor now rules the Earth. Over the last three issues you've mentioned the difficulties Thor faced trying to take control of the planet -- in fact he lost and eye and an arm somewhere along the way -- but we haven’t seen what actually happened. Was there a specific reason you chose to begin the story after Thor was victorious? Do you have any plans to write any flashbacks to that time period?
DJ: Yes, there will be flashbacks. THOR #73 will tell the story of the assassination attempt by a few main Marvel characters that nearly took Thor out of the picture.
From a storytelling sense, I thought it was more powerful to jump to the result of Thor's actions and then fill in the main highlights as the story unfolds.
MN: Incredibly, Loki has become a trusted ally in Thor’s regime. How do you view the Trickster’s role in the book and has Thor's acceptance of him affected Loki in any way? And what's the deal with Loki wearing Dr. Strange’s cloak and the Eye of Agamotto?
DJ: You'll see some background on Strange's trinkets later.
And, yes, Loki is a trusted ally of Thor's. Really, Thor has given Loki almost everything he ever could have hoped. Even Odin never had the guts, wisdom or lack thereof to do what Thor's done.
His interests and Thor's suddenly coincide.
MN: THOR has seen a lot of art changes in the past year. But it looks like Scot Eaton is on his way to bringing some consistency to the book. Do you think the heavy art rotation has hindered the storyline in any way? Aside from consistency, what else does Scot bring to THOR artistically?
DJ: I think the lack of a consistent artist has hurt us and we've finally rectified that problem.
There are certain classic visual elements that THOR needs to succeed. Scot delivers on all counts. His stuff is absolutely fantastic.
MN: Many people think this future THOR timeline will simply be reset once you finish the story. How long will “The Reigning" run and will it truly have any lasting impact on THOR and the Marvel Universe?DJ: Well, now you're asking me to give away the end of the story and I just can't do that!
MN: THOR has taken over the Earth, allied himself with Loki and he’s obviously killed or beaten the piss out of the Avengers, and anyone else who opposed him. Can he ever be redeemed? And can he ever regain the human portion of his soul that he lost after being separated from Jake Olson?
DJ: Without giving away too much, the arc that will follow all of this is called "Redemption".
And it would be incredibly simplistic to think it's going to be that simple, or even the typically trite, "Oh, now I'll do something good and everything will be okay again," type of story.
MN: It seems like THOR is a book that’s been under people’s radar for a while now, despite the bold direction and Herculean scope. Why hasn’t THOR generated more buzz in the comics community?
DJ: THOR has always been a book or character that floats a bit under the radar. With rare exception, he's never enjoyed the sales level or recognition of Spider-Man.
Right now, buzz is driven by changing creative teams on the three or four biggest properties at Marvel or DC, sometimes with concepts that go back to the basics, other times with bold new ideas.
Our ideas evolved in a slower, more deliberate fashion. If, just before Odin died, I had changed my name to "H. Jeffrey Smith" and Marvel had trumpeted the arrival of a new writer, we might have gotten a bigger look.
MN: Ultimately, what did you want to accomplish with this epic THOR saga? And once it’s ended how the hell can you possibly top it?
DJ: I'll go back to what I said earlier...I want readers to feel the ride was worth the price of admission and that they enjoyed enough to get on the ride again.
As for how we'll top it...stay tuned.
To catch up on Thor’s epic rise to power, check out the following trades written by Dan Jurgens (click on thumbnails for larger pics):
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