Creator, Publish Thy Self: Kyle Baker

By Tim O'Shea

After being in the industry for 20 years, there’s very little that Kyle Baker has not done. But recently he entered a new realm as he decided to make the leap into self publishing. December 2003 will bring the release of his first major foray as self-publisher--Kyle Baker: Cartoonist, a 128-page paperback. And this release will be closely on the heels of November’s launch of his monthly Plastic Man series for DC Comics. SBC was fortunate enough to recently discuss his work in many fields including animation, as well as his long-term self-publishing plans for 2003/2004.

Tim O’Shea: First off, I thought your sketch idea for the San Diego Comic Con (SDCC) was fairly savvy, what was the turnout/response to it at the con (ballpark estimate)? What made you decide to do this?

Kyle Baker: I did it because the convention is so huge, nobody would ever find my table unless they're looking for it. I had posted my booth number on the website, but I couldn't be sure anyone would take time to write it down and then remember to bring the number to the Con. And you've seen the Con booklet, there's a zillion names and my name is very tiny in the middle of all these names.

I figured, if I could get people to print my booth number on a piece of paper and carry it with them to the Con, they might remember to drop by my table. I posted a coupon on my website that could be downloaded and redeemed for a free sketch. I limited the freebie to the first 500 customers, to add a sense of urgency. Now people had a piece of paper with my booth number that could be redeemed for a free sketch, but they had to hurry!

I'm not sure exactly how many sketches I ended up doing. I was drawing constantly from Wednesday to Sunday. I had planned to sign and number the sketches on the actual coupons, but it turns out most people have sketchbooks they want the drawings in, so the whole numbering system went to hell. They'd give me the coupon and ask for a sketch in the sketchbook. I did about five hundred and a hundred coupon sketches, I guess.

I was overwhelmed. I hadn't brought anyone along to help with the booth, so I was working alone most of the time. It was my first time having a booth, and I was unprepared for the nonstop barrage of people at my booth. I was sketching, selling books, making change, and doing press interviews simultaneously, and It was impossible to keep track of what was going on. I couldn't keep track of inventory, and I was just taking peoples' money and throwing it in a bag on the floor. My wife Liz, pregnant in NY, found a nice lady named Aleda Patterson who helped me out on Saturday, and also covered for me the two hours I had a panel on Friday. Next year I'm bringing two helpers, including Aleda. I never got away from the table the whole time of the Con, except for that panel I did.

I learned a lot from this first-time experience. I've already reserved a bigger booth for next year.

TO: In terms of the cover to The New Baker, are there any legal concerns to doing a New Yorker homage cover like that?

KB: Well, I know for a fact DC would never have let me do it, because we've had similar situations in the past. But I'm only doing The New Baker once, and it's clearly satirical. The New Yorker could only claim damages if people were buying this thinking it was really The New Yorker, and only a moron would ever mistake this comic book for The New Yorker.

TO: With the family scenes in the sample pages to The New Baker, I was curious what
motivated you to open your personal life up for entertainment (to a certain extent) in The Bakers?

KB: In The Bakers, as with most of my work, I'm trying to focus on what's universal in our personal experience. Stuff like me trying unsuccessfully to dress the baby, or trying to watch an action movie without waking the kids are the kinds of things almost everyone can relate to. A lot of people read those strips and tell me that it's like reading about their own lives. One woman at the Con told me her son had brought a copy home the night before, and the mother identified with those cartoons so strongly that she came to my booth and bought another copy for herself. So the strip focuses less on the details peculiar to my own life, and more on the universal. I will also have some stories about being a cartoonist trying to work at home while surrounded by children who want to grab all my comic books and art supplies, but most of it is about stuff everyone experiences.

TO: Also how does your wife feel about being "part" of your work literally?

KB: Liz asked me why I draw myself so fat. I told her it's because fat is funny. My daughter asked why I draw Mommy so skinny, I explained it's because Daddy's no fool. Most of the jokes are at my expense. I don't plan to embarrass my wife or kids. The strip is intended to be lighthearted family entertainment, so we won't really be getting into any of the "danger" areas of our life. Besides, we're a happy family.

TO: How long has Kyle Baker Comics and The Bakers been in development?

KB: At least four years.

TO: Did you shop the Baker comics around to publishers, or did you know from the start you wanted to have complete editorial control afforded you through self-publishing?

KB: I have wanted to self-publish for a few years now. I've been discussing it with people like Dave and Maria Lapham, Jeff Smith and Vijaya Iyer, and Eddie Campbell for years. I took the time necessary to do this thing right. The books are great, I've got a marketing plan, a budget--I'm not just jumping into this as a lark. I'm going to pay my mortgages with this. People are going to be shocked at how successful this business will be. Watch.

TO: Excuse my ignorance, but until I saw your portfolio at your website, I did not realize your affinity and ability to do incredible landscape art. Do you try to do a variety of art to keep your career interesting and challenging? What is the appeal of landscapes in particular?

KB: I think it's important to be able to do a wide variety of things well. I've seen too many one-trick ponies start big, then go out of style and end up broke. I've never been unemployed in 20 years. I've had times when I couldn't get art jobs and had to support myself with writing. I've had times when I couldn't get writing jobs and had to support myself with drawing. I've had times when I couldn't get work in comic books and had to do advertising or TV or magazines or movies. I've never had all of my businesses go bad at the same time.

I like landscapes for the same reason most people like beautiful scenery.

TO: Given your work in animation, is there ever a time that you're developing a graphic novel and suddenly you realize "hey I'd like to see this be an animation project instead" (or vice versa)?

KB: Usually I get an idea for something funny, then I try to figure out where to sell it.

If it's a really good idea, I never consider selling it to a Hollywood studio. They buy complete ownership of the work, and they water good ideas down and make them lame. I think almost all of the animation being done by Hollywood is crap, with the exception of Pixar. That's just my opinion, and you are free to like what you like.

If I have a good idea and I want to see it done a certain way, I'll do a book every time. Usually, the only time I do animation is when it's someone else's idea, like Looney Tunes. Because if it's someone else's idea, it doesn't break my heart when the studio cuts all the jokes out and turns it into a lame piece of shit. Since there are no residuals in animation, the studios have cleverly constructed a deal in which I get paid the same for a good film as I do for a bad film. And it's much easier to make a bad film. The comic book business, on the other hand, pays royalties, so I have an incentive to make it good. The bigger a percentage I have, the harder I work to make it great. That just makes sense.

Now that I've opened my own animation studio, I'm looking at turning many more of my ideas into animation. I premiered a Cowboy Wally preview at San Diego, which was well received, and I'm planning a Bakers short for next year, and some other cool stuff, too.

TO: What's the expected timetable/status for the Animated Cowboy Wally?
What advantages do you gain in doing Cowboy Wally in animation versus doing a graphic novel sequel?

KB: A few years back, a producer named Zane Buzby came to me. She had read Cowboy Wally and had a really funny idea for a story. We sat down and wrote it. We've recorded dialogue, and I've been animating it. Based on the great response the footage got at San Diego, we've decided to spend some money and step up production. Once we've got a couple more minutes done, we'll be showing it around LA to get folks to put more money into it. That should be in a couple of months.

Then we'll be able to announce a release date.

Once we've got the Cowboy Wally animated movie financed and scheduled, I plan to publish the graphic novel adaptation.

TO: Who composed the music for Fine Art Gallery and what was the story behind that project?

KB: Everybody asks me about the music. I composed and performed all of the music myself. The Fine Art Gallery was created when I first started Kylebaker.com. In 1999, when the web was just taking off, I bought the name Kylebaker.com because I didn't want anyone else to get it. Back then, there wasn't really any way to make money off of the web, so I didn't really have any immediate plans for the site, I just wanted to reserve the name. The big problem back then was (and is) low bandwidth. You couldn't really put anything worthwhile on the web because it would take forever to download. Remember when web videos were the size of a postage stamp, and they were blurry and the sound was all garbled? And it would take an hour to download! Back then, I wanted to create really small files that would load relatively quickly. The result was the Fine Art Gallery.

I'm currently working on an update to the site. In the past couple of years, the web has finally developed into a viable means of distribution and commerce. Over the next few months you'll see a brand new site develop. And I'll add more music for you.

TO: As a person that has had his work appear in The New York Times, Esquire, The New Yorker, Spin, Rolling Stone, Vibe, The Village Voice, Mad, Entertainment Weekly, and ESPN (just to name a few), how often do you find that your fans first tried comics because of you?

KB: I haven't heard anything like that, but I do know that a lot of folks buy my books for their friends who don't read comics.

TO: How gratifying is it to bring new readership into what some would consider to be a shrinking industry?

KB: First of all, the industry is not shrinking, it's growing. There are more publishers and more venues. I can buy graphic novels at the mall, in record stores, on the internet--And I can buy a greater variety of subject matter, everything from 100 Demons to Road To Perdition to Bone to King David to Diary of a Teenage Girl.

Graphic Novels are the fastest-growing section of the retail book business. Libraries are even buying them.

Books like Palestine and Jimmy Corrigan are huge hits. Anime is HUGE. Publishers like Crown are getting into the act. I've started my own publishing company, and have already made a profit on my first book. I've also got a book deal with Crown. We're all following the money! There's more money than ever right now in Graphic Novels, if you're selling the right stuff.

I'm not sure how the superhero business is doing. I don't follow the Marvel and DC sales figures. Maybe that's the shrinking part you’re talking about.

A lot of the fans I met at the Con were new fans. They got into my work recently after buying King David or I Die At Midnight and went back to buy all of my other books. The thing I found most interesting was that almost every fan had ALL of my books. My books sell for 15-20 dollars, so we're talking about people who are buying $100 dollars worth of books! Most of these fans bought my books on the internet, because THEY COULDN'T FIND THEM IN COMIC STORES. And all of these fans also bought books by Dan Clowes and Chris Ware and Lynda Barry. Nobody asked me to sketch Batman. Maybe two people asked me to sign any of my Spider-man or Shadow back issues. And most of these fans were surprisingly young. And about half of them were women. These fans are the future of our business, and the smart publishers and retailers are catering to them.

TO: What is your connection to Birth Of A Nation (the graphic novel written by Aaron McGruder and Reginald Hudlin)?

KB: I'm illustrating Birth Of A Nation, which will be published by Crown Books next year. I'm not sure how much of the story I'm allowed to reveal at this time, but I can tell you it's funny. Crown has a bunch of graphic novels planned for next year, and Birth Of A Nation will be the first. I'm having a ball working on it. I think it's scheduled for spring 2004. My deadline for finishing the book is September 2003.

TO: In terms of the Truth (your Marvel miniseries) upon reflection, do you think the series turned out as well as you hoped it might?

KB: Yes.

TO: What do you think about some of the fan criticism of the series and the resulting racial discussions the series has fostered?

KB: The book was designed to generate controversy. That was the whole point.

TO: What satisfaction creatively and personally do you garner from delving into the complicated subject matter of racial dynamics in storytelling? Will you be pursuing some of this in your new Kyle Baker comics line?

KB: I'm going to be doing the Nat Turner biography. He's one of my heroes, and he is a hero to all Black people. It's the book I'm most excited about. My generation has opportunities our parents and grandparents didn't have. My grandpa caught hell his whole life so I could get the chances I get today. When I was a kid, we didn't have any Black comic book heroes that were created by Black people for Black people. I get a lot of letters from Black folks who love Truth and King David, and that's who I do it for. And for my kids.

TO: Are you pleased to see Priest using elements of the Truth in his series, The Crew?

KB: Chris Priest gave me my first inking job at Marvel, back when his name was Owsley. I always wish him the most success. Among other things, he taught me the importance of hooking a brother up, and I follow his example to this day.

TO: How is the creative process different when working with a writer other than yourself, i.e. Robert Morales?

KB: I do half the work, and get half as much money.

TO: How long have you wanted to do Plastic Man and how daunting is it to commit
to a monthly (considering what else you creatively have on your plate) versus the graphic novel that was originally planned?

KB: I never wanted to do Plastic Man before. DC asked me to revamp one of their characters, and I chose Plastic Man.

I've done monthlies before. I did The Shadow, Web Of Spider-Man, New Mutants, and others. In the '80s, I used to do a book a week. It took me four days to pencil and ink an issue of the Shadow back in the '80s. The most pages I ever did in a week was 64 pages of Dick Tracy. I've been in this business for twenty years.

Paul Levitz wanted a monthly, so it's a monthly. I'm finishing issue #2 now. When the first issue comes out in November, I'll have finished #4.

TO: Will your Plastic Man be "in continuity"?

KB: It will be in continuity. The first four issues are the story that was intended to be the GN, so they kind of stand alone, but starting with #4, the book will be totally tied in with current DC continuity, including wrapping up all the loose ends from his JLA run. In issue #5, a lot of the DCU characters will appear for a story arc that will continue for 3 or 4 months.

It's very important to stay true to the legacies of these classic heroes. DC and Marvel Comics are our modern mythology, super-heroes our gods and goddesses. We must respect our legends and protect them for future generations.

TO: How much of a shift is it to do a character with such a deep DC history (in comparison to the majority of creator-owned work you've done in recent years)?

KB: It's easier to do a DC character. I don't have to create anything. The characters, location, and genres have already been figured out by Jack Cole. All I have to do is make sure I stay true to the original formula. People like it when characters don't change. If I go to a James Bond movie, I want action, girls, and hi-tech spy gadgets. If I pick up a DC comic, I want to see familiar superheroes fighting crime.

TO: Are there any plans to do a follow-up to the Vertigo TPB collection, Undercover Genie? Have you been pleased with response to it so far?

KB: I haven't heard much response to it, have you? I don't get out of the house much. I live in the woods.

TO: When do you sleep? And is there any project you're working on that I forgot to ask about?

KB: I don't sleep.

I should mention that my intended self-published monthly comic has been changed to a series of self-published trade paperbacks, 3 or 4 a year. I discussed it with Diamond, and it doesn't make good economic sense for me to publish a 32-page monthly which I intend to collect as paperbacks anyway. I could do the math here for you, but it's dull. The good news is, that instead of the 32-page comic I'd planned to debut in December, a 128 page paperback will come out in December. The title is Kyle Baker: Cartoonist. It will include 40 pages of The Bakers, and 88 pages of other cool stuff, similar to the cartoons in The New Baker. Look for my full-page color ad in Previews. I'll follow that book up with the Nat Turner graphic novel in February, then another graphic novel titled My Special Pain in spring of 2004. I haven't decided what I'll publish in the summer yet.