Jeph Loeb: It's All Good

By Mike Jozic

I think it could be said that Jeph Loeb has just about done it all in this industry. He’s written flagship titles and award winning minis for Marvel and DC, he’s dabbled with creator owned material at Vertigo and was a founding partner of Awesome Comics, with then colleague, Rob Liefeld. Outside of comic books, he’s also written for film and television, with his most recent credit being for the WB’s hit series, Smallville, chronicling the live-action adventures of a young Clark Kent.

While I will always think of his wonderful Challengers of the Unknown mini-series whenever I hear his name, I think most readers will recall how, over the course of the last 8 months, Jeph, along with superstar artist Jim Lee, has put DC’s Dark Knight Detective back on the industry map and at the top of the sales charts like no creative team has in recent memory. Their “Hush” storyline is making waves with fans and critics alike, as is the news of their imminent return to the series after a 6 month hiatus.

Not one to rest on his laurels, we will also see through the end of this year and into the next the release of October’s Hulk: Gray mini as well as the as-yet-unnamed and unscheduled Superman and Batman project, both with long-time collaborator Tim Sale. A third season of Smallville should go without saying.

Jeph is one of the busiest people I have run across in my travels, but not too busy that he couldn’t stop the world for a few moments in order to answer some questions on SBC’s behalf…

MIKE JOZIC: You've been writing Batman now for quite a few years, with a couple of stop-overs in Metropolis to play with big-blue. Apart from their iconic status in comics, and pop culture as a whole, what draws you to these two characters?

JEPH LOEB: They are incredibly complex characters that are very different, and yet, try to accomplish the same goals. I love how Superman continues to inspire us to be our best - particularly in these turbulent times - and I am fascinated by Batman's tortured quest to accomplish the unaccomplishable - if that's a word!

And don't discount their iconic stature. That's part of the thrill. Particularly given the caliber of artist I've been lucky enough to work with - Jim Lee, Tim Sale and Ed McGuinness - it's like making movies with two big stars (Superman and Batman) and three truly great directors/cinematographers (Jim, Tim, and Ed).

JOZIC: What would you consider your most accomplished work at this point in your career?

LOEB: That's a very difficult question because I can appreciate the work in many ways. Mostly, I just try and tell the best story I can and hope folks like it. Currently, they seem to and I appreciate that. Any time I can get a fan to enjoy a story – whether it's because of the artwork, color or lettering, I don't care why - that's a smile. I was and still am a fan. I go every week to the comic book store. So, if I can create something that someone else thinks is worth buying, then I've accomplished my goal.

JOZIC: How is it working with Jim Lee? Is there a lot of interaction between the two of you, or does he get sent the script and you see the pages a little while later?

LOEB: Whenever I work with an artist it's a collaboration. Jim is no different. I try to write to an artist's strengths and I'd like to think that is why I've enjoyed the success I've shared thus far. So, in particular, Jim and I talk about the story I'm telling, he offers suggestions about scenes or character bits - sometimes it's as big an idea as "I want to draw an Opera House" that influenced Batman #613 in terms of where it took place. It helped me focus the story.

I write full script and give it to Jim - and Bat Editor Bob Schreck. Jim starts drawing and I see the pages as they come and we talk about them. Mostly it's me just gushing. [laughs] But, sometimes I catch something, the same way he'll catch something in the script. I then do final dialogue over the artwork to better suit either (a) what I've thought of since I wrote the script or (b) what works better with the page. That's the most fun, and often the hardest part. The big present is having Richard Starkings do the lettering and titles. Richard is my good luck charm, my editorial voice, my harshest critic. If the work is good, it's because of Rich.

JOZIC: For your first episode of Smallville, you introduced Red Kryptonite to the show. What was the motivation behind that particular decision?

LOEB: That was a gift from the show's creators Al Gough and Miles Millar. They knew they were going to do a Red K story in the first six and asked if I would write it. The idea of the school ring was theirs. I knew immediately that it would be a very involving show because it brought out "Bad Clark" as he's now known. I just wanted to get to the kiss with Lana. That was the big moment. And it worked wonderfully largely due to Tom and Kristen's performances. Smallville is a very collaborative show with a fantastic writing staff that I'm a part of - but it all works because of Al and Miles.

JOZIC: Having already done the Red K, what are some other things you would like to have a chance at introducing to the Smallville mythos from the comic books?

LOEB: Ah, that would be telling and telling leads to yelling and me no like yelling.

JOZIC: When you came on the show, did you get the feeling that Miles and Alfred had a pretty clear vision for Smallville from the outset, or was there a sense that, with season 2, they were just starting to "spread their wings" and experiment with what the show was capable of achieving?

LOEB: I think any show has to grow. Did the show have a certain "formulaic" quality in the first six episodes? Sure. And that was Al and Miles plan. People have to get to know what a show is before you can show them what it can be or sometimes, what it isn’t.

Smallville is a show that is built on wonderful characters who will change, grow, live, die, love, lose, whatever. And on top of that, re-imagine a myth that is as powerful today as it was in 1938. A fairly remarkable task that I believe Al and Miles and a set of very talented writers - who I'm lucky to be associated with - have pulled off thus far. My hope is that Season 3 tops 2 and that won't be easy because folks were pretty delighted with what they've seen thus far!

JOZIC: Will you be doing any work on the Smallville comic book?

LOEB: I might. I'm pretty busy! [laughs] But, Mark Verheiden - who I not only consider a friend, but the best writer on the show after Al and Miles - and Clint Carpenter who is our incredible script supervisor handle that book and are doing a great job. They need me like a hole in the head.

JOZIC: Why did the Buffy Animated series fall apart?

LOEB: I wouldn't say it fell apart as much as it didn't get off the ground. The rocket is still there waiting on the launch pad. There are wonderful scripts from the Buffy live action staff and amazing design work from Eric Radomski who is largely responsible for the success of Batman Animated and Animated Spawn. My guess is that when Buffy live goes off the air, some bright young executive at the WB is going to say, “Hmmm ... that would be a great franchise for Kids WB,” and we'll see it come alive.

Joss Whedon who overseas all things Buffy made it magic. I got to hold rabbit and the hat.

JOZIC: Was it a sad thing to have to leave the project, or was the blow lessened by your move to Smallville?

LOEB: All of the above. I made friendships that I treasure with the Buffy and Angel staff and with Joss. But, when Smallville called, I had to take it. Joss supported the move or I wouldn't have done it. Given what happened to Buffy Animated, it was the right decision. I have no regrets. About anything. Ever. It's all good.

JOZIC: How long do you plan to stay on with the show? Will you be back for Season 3?

LOEB: I will be back for Season 3. I'll stay with the show as long as it's as fun and challenging as it is now. It would seem odd to stay after Al and Miles go - but that's two seasons from now - who knows how I'll feel then!

JOZIC: You have the Hulk: Gray mini-series coming up from Marvel. I wondered if, originally, it was timed-out to be released along with the film?

LOEB: We had thought so. Then some genius in accounting thought that because Spider-Man: Blue #6 was late they wanted to have most of the mini-series in the can before we got a start date. I can see their point of view - but I wish we weren't paying the price for the lateness of books like Ultimates or Daredevil/Bullseye or Spider-Man/Black Cat. Tim and I have a wonderful track record and our hardcover collections will be in print forever. Nobody is going to remember that the last issue was late.

Still, it's their ball and their bat and their playground. We get the choice of whether we want to play or not. Hulk: Gray is a timeless story and we'll roll [it] out some time afterward. You can't believe how beautiful Tim's artwork is and how monstrous his Hulk is. We're having fun and that's because of the support we get from Nanci and Joe Quesada.

JOZIC: What will be the general premise of the series?

LOEB: It examines a world that in many people's eyes is black & white. It's odd, but with what is going on in the world, we're so aware of the military and how evil is painted. The Hulk was a monster. Pure and simple. But, he wasn't. So, that's when the world has some gray in it. That...and Hulk gets to SMASH a lot of stuff.

JOZIC: Do you have any more "colour" minis you'd like to tackle?

LOEB: Maybe. We'd like to finish this one first. Each project leads to another - but we don't like to get ahead of ourselves. Otherwise, all you wind up talking about is that project that never happened.

JOZIC: Out of the three minis so far, which would you say worked out in execution just like you’d imagined it in conception?

LOEB: Everything I do, and especially with Tim, I have such high hopes for and I'm very lucky to work with such talented artists, colorists and letterers that I'm never let down. I can't compare the work - it's all different. I'm really jazzed about Hulk right now, but that's because I've seen most of it and no one else has.

“Hush” was like that. Jim and I were sitting on pages for a year waiting to show folks and then it just happened. What's rewarding is the response from the fans. When they don't like it anymore, I'll go - so fast you won't even see the blur. It's been a great ride on all accounts.

JOZIC: Were there ever any plans to do a Superman mini like “The Long Halloween” and “Dark Victory”?

LOEB: Tim and I have a very large Superman and Batman project that has been patiently waiting for us to address when the time is right. That may be sooner than later.

JOZIC: What’s holding it up?

LOEB: There's no delay, per se. I just don't like to talk about things until the time is right because then that's all anybody wants to talk about! What about such and such? And what ever happened to such and such? But, I understand the interviewer's dilema - he's/she's looking for the next story while doing this story. I'm just sorry I can't be more helpful, right now.

JOZIC: What is the difference between writing a script for Superman - or Batman, now, I guess - and an episode of Smallville?

LOEB: Very similar and nothing alike. [laughs] Superman in the comics is a grown man who accepts who he is. He's made the journey, now it's about the never-ending battle. Smallville is about the trials of Clark Kent. Clark doesn't know what his destiny is and there are choices to be made all the time that will affect that. Also, the real Lana is much hotter than the drawn Lois. Sorry, kids, but it's true...

JOZIC: Do you spend a lot of time on the set or with the actors?

LOEB: Unfortunately, no. That's just the reality of a show that shoots in Vancouver when the writing staff is in L.A. I love working in the room and breaking the shows - but it would be good to spend some time up there. I got very spoiled in Buffy-land since the set was about 100 feet from my office and it was a very open and welcome atmosphere. I also just miss producing, being on the set, that sort of thing - it's where I come from creatively so, this is different. Not bad or good, just different.

JOZIC: Having had so much to do with DC's two big Icons, and with the film franchises kind of floating out there in limbo, what would you like to see happen with the Batman and Superman film series'?

LOEB: That they make good movies and soon. I'm a bit dumbfounded by it all. These two great franchises should come out every 18 months, one then the other - like the James Bond franchise. Just make them. Some are blockbusters and some are "just" successful. Don't think about it as one movie, but 20 movies and relax!

Warners does an amazing job with the Harry Potter books and Lord of the Rings, but they can't get out of the gate with these two. I thought that the success of Spider-Man would rocket these films, but in some ways the pressure to make them the best films ever - whatever that means - has kept them in the stall. Enough, already, just make a movie!

JOZIC: There was a while there where people were saying that Warners should ask you to do it because of your film experience and your familiarity with the characters of Superman and Batman. What did you think of that perception then and if you were asked to do something now, would you?

LOEB: I'd love to be asked. I will write a big comic book movie one day. It's one of my goals, I know I could do it and when it happens, I won't be shy about it.

JOZIC: Has The Witching Hour gotten any closer to becoming a feature film?

LOEB: There's stuff always happening. When it becomes real, that's when I feel comfortable discussing it.

JOZIC: Having some sort of theme, framing device or gimmick seems to be a big part of a lot of your special projects - the seasons, the holidays and the colours, respectively. Is that a way in which to sell the idea to a publisher, or does it make it easier for you to put together a finite story?

LOEB: As I said, I just try and tell the best story I can and hope folks like it. I don't see things as "gimmicks" - that kind of cheapens the approach, doesn't it? Every story needs focus and I try and give them something to hang the ornaments on. Oops - mixed metaphor there. Huh.... maybe it is all a gimmick! [laughs]

JOZIC: Having moved on from the Superman books, what do you feel is the legacy that you've left behind?

LOEB: I think "legacy" is a bit strong. It's not like I was there for a decade. But, it was three years and we told some good tales. I'm very happy that the DCU has a Krypto in it now, a Bizarro #1, and President Luthor. Those are things I can point to and say, “Yep, I did that.” Mostly, my friendships with Joe Kelly, Joe Casey, Mark Schultz and Eddie Berganza are what I treasure.

JOZIC: With your experience in animation and television, coupled with your history with some of DC's characters, would you like to write for the Justice League cartoon?

LOEB: I've talked with those guys. Bruce Timm does an amazing job of running that show. Sure, it would be fun - but, honestly, animation is a lot of work and very time consuming and right now between comics, movies and Smallville the plate is very full. I still like having dinner with my wife and kids every once and a while! [laughs]

JOZIC: The material added to the “Hush” hardcover, was it created specifically for the special edition, or were there script pages that were excised for the original release of the monthly?

LOEB: No, they were made for the hardcover. None of them are particularly critical to the story, but Jim drew the heck out of them. Bob Greenberger, who is in charge of that sort of thing at DC, called and said that because of the way the double page spreads fell we needed pages to change the order of the page count. This is caused by not having ads in a story that originally had ads, otherwise you wind up with a black fill-in page and nobody wants that. In “The Long Halloween” Tim and I got to put in one page to make it all fit nicely - for some reason that didn't happen on “Dark Victory”. I'd like to go back and correct that one day.

JOZIC: Is that quite difficult going back and “inserting” a page of story and art that didn’t previously exist in that space?

LOEB: No. Those pages are usually just extensions of things that are there. Some work really well, others feel like filler to me, but if you've never read the story, I don't think it matters much. The hardcover is beautifully mounted, however, so I'm very proud of it.

JOZIC: The fans and the media have responded very favourably to yours and Jim’s run on Batman. How are you enjoying it so far?

LOEB: What's not to enjoy? We've been lucky enough to be the #1 book for months in a row. And the feedback has been wonderful. Like I said, it's all good...

JOZIC: The two of you will be returning for another 6-issues of Batman following Azzarello and Risso's arc. Are those six issues set in stone as the last we’ll see of you and Jim on the book, or is there a possibility you may continue on the series for an even longer period?

LOEB: At the moment, the door is very open and that's very generous of DC. “Hush” has become a phenomenon, so I don't know if we could ever top that, but it's worth a try. Again, I don't set out with that kind of mindset, but Jim is very competitive and I'm willing to give it a go.

JOZIC: What can readers expect from the extra six issues?

LOEB: I won't say much other than some of the elements of “Hush” - you don't have to read “Hush” to understand it, but it explains how those things happened - continue to play in Batman's life. So that part I'm very much looking forward to. And it's a Batman and Robin story - which Jim should do quite outstandingly.

JOZIC: With Batman sitting as the #1 book for DC, and I think it's topping off the Diamond charts also, are there any limits to what you and Jim are able to do with the characters and the world of Gotham?

LOEB: Well.... sure. They aren't our characters - we just get to play with them. The trick is to tell a story that folks remember that give the story some "take away" - that you're not reading a story that's all "well, let's hit the reset button and..." I'm hoping that we're introducing a number of new readers to characters they haven't seen before - like Huntress - and getting them some update on things like Batman Vs. Superman and Batman vs. Joker. It's all good.

JOZIC: Was it difficult to leave Superman, or do you feel like you've told all the Superman stories you have to tell at this time?

LOEB: It's always difficult to leave anything, but it was time to go. I actually wanted to go at #175, but I had promised Eddie that I would finish out the year. Even as it was, I didn't make it to the summer stories. I'm very proud of #176-183, make no mistake, but I knew it was time. Fortunately, Superman/Batman - or whatever we're calling it this week - fills a lot of the gap of making it fresh and new again.

<JOZIC: Bringing Superman and Batman together in #612, is that a fan-turned-writer's dream come true?

LOEB: Oh, yeah. Big time. And to have Jim Lee draw it? C'mon! I'm still plotzing all over myself!

JOZIC: Are there any characters in either the Marvel or DC Universes that you would still like to tackle?

LOEB: Sure. And when the time is right...

JOZIC: The Challengers mini is still one of my all-time favourite comic stories. How do you look back on your first DC work compared to what you're doing now? Do you have fond memories of the experience?

LOEB: I have very fond memories, mostly because it was the first time I worked with Tim Sale. He had never worked in mainstream superhero comics and I'd never written one before, so it was all new - all cool. Looking back, I'm amazed at how well it holds up - and how the story is really more relevant now than even then. I'm hoping that DC collects the book - it's the only thing that Tim and I have done that hasn't been collected. There's a 12-page epilogue that is inked, lettered and everything but colored that tied up a couple of loose ends that I'd love to see printed for the first time. It was going to be in JLA Quarterly when that book got cancelled. It definitely speaks to a time long ago.

JOZIC: I remember that there was talk of a possible ongoing series had the mini done better commercially. Did you have anything mapped out at that time or was it just something you considered?

LOEB: We were going to do a lot of things - it was mapped out, but the book really didn't do very well commercially. Funny part is, it would do much better now mostly because Tim and I are seen differently by the retailers. So, who knows. I still have the notes.

JOZIC: What comics do you read these days?

LOEB: It's more like what don’t I read? Far out in front is Bendis' Alias. I can't put my finger on it, but that book rocks. I like whatever Millar is doing. Geoff Johns’ Avengers, JLA and Flash are terrific. Y - The Last Man is great. Fables is amazing - it's so good I had to call Bill Willingham who I don't know at all and thank him.

I do that though. I think it's important that we recognize good work from everyone in the business. The only person I know who does it regularly is Dan Jurgens. He's a total pro and a helluva nice guy and when he likes something he lets you know it. That's great.

JOZIC: I run into a lot of guys who say that they don’t read too many comics, either because they’re in the business and have lost their taste for it, or just don’t have the time anymore. How do you find the time?

LOEB: I don't make judgments, but if you work in any business, it's good to see what your competitors and your mates are doing. I share an office with Geoff Johns so we talk comics all the time. And first and foremost, I am a fan, I love reading comics, so it's not like it's working!

JOZIC: On a final note, with all the noise Rob Liefeld's making of late, and your previous history with him, I was curious as to what you thought about his re-entering the publishing fray with his latest Youngblood series?

LOEB: What is there to say? I'm looking forward to it and he's having a ball with it.

I'll never understand why Rob is this lightning rod for questions like this. He's my friend and we're very close.

JOZIC: Do you have any plans to collaborate with Rob again in the future?

LOEB: I'm sure we'll work together again - we've had fun in the past and we will in the future.

	Mike Jozic has spent the last several years interviewing comic book creators and other entertainment related personalities for various publications. He has been published both online and in print, with his work appearing in The Comics Journal, FearsMag.com and Silver Bullet Comicbooks. He maintains his own website at www.meanwhile.net and currently serves as the Features Editor for SBC.